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[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)
- Thread starter vegster
- Start date
Cordwainer
Well-known member
- Jul 30, 2023
- 741
Quite..I should have added to my original post that there are many decent Americans both there and elsewhere and we should not tarnish them all with the big orange brush.
GoldstoneVintage
Well-known member
My concern is the end of US made weapons to Ukraine. There are some important pieces of kit that only the US makes EG: Patriots. Yes, Europe can, in theory, buy from America and pass to Ukraine but not without an 'end user agreement'. Trump could easily say no to anyone passing US made weapons to Ukraine. Now that wouldn't be game over, but it would complicate matters. Also, what happens when the F16s need parts?
It has been suggested that Trump only cares about money, in which case this is not likely to be a problem. On the other hand, if he is actually (as he seems to be) pro-Russian, he'll base his policy on what helps Putin and hinders Ukraine, regardless of lost defense contracts.
GoldstoneVintage
Well-known member
At least the BBC are reporting it properly:
"It’s extraordinary to what degree America’s rhetoric on Ukraine now coincides with Russia’s, and how different it is from Europe’s, Nato’s and Ukraine’s.
First, we were told by US officials that Ukraine should forget about joining Nato or reclaiming territory occupied by Russia, and now Donald Trump says that it was Ukraine that started the war and that Volodymyr Zelensky is an unpopular "dictator" whose mandate has expired.
I’ve been hearing these points of view for years – from the most virulently anti-Western commentators on Russian state TV.
To hear them from a US president at what is certainly one of the darkest hours in their history amounts to nothing short of a betrayal for Ukrainians.
Moscow knows this is unprecedented in recent history, and is clearly happy.
“No Western leader has ever said anything like this, and he’s said it several times,” Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov said, referring to Trump blaming Ukraine for the war.
“This means that he understands our position.”"
"It’s extraordinary to what degree America’s rhetoric on Ukraine now coincides with Russia’s, and how different it is from Europe’s, Nato’s and Ukraine’s.
First, we were told by US officials that Ukraine should forget about joining Nato or reclaiming territory occupied by Russia, and now Donald Trump says that it was Ukraine that started the war and that Volodymyr Zelensky is an unpopular "dictator" whose mandate has expired.
I’ve been hearing these points of view for years – from the most virulently anti-Western commentators on Russian state TV.
To hear them from a US president at what is certainly one of the darkest hours in their history amounts to nothing short of a betrayal for Ukrainians.
Moscow knows this is unprecedented in recent history, and is clearly happy.
“No Western leader has ever said anything like this, and he’s said it several times,” Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov said, referring to Trump blaming Ukraine for the war.
“This means that he understands our position.”"
It'll stick in the throat for years.
Europe should start their own military alliance without the US and with Ukraine.
And shit on those bastards as much as we can.
papachris
Well-known member
I would like to know. The Americans that voted for Trump. Are they still proud of him now? I really fear for the future Europe and the world now
Home and Away
Well-known member
- Sep 18, 2018
- 382
I presume that most of his "followers" are not really capable of independent thought. If trump says Ukraine started the war, then they'll probably believe him.
Deportivo Seagull
I should coco
US arms industry wouldn’t allow it. Can you image Putin with western quality arms? There are a raft of laws that would stop this.
US Seagull
Well-known member
Aww...I'm touched
pb21
Well-known member
- Apr 23, 2010
- 6,879
Most likely Trump will say he ended the war Ukraine/Zelensky instigated, ended US involvement saving $$$ and secured a good deal with Putin over Ukraine's 'resources'. Musk will endorse it, alluding to Zelensky being unelected/undemocratic.
Majority of Trump's supporters will lap it up.
I still think there is a chance Trump is playing some kind of game (arguably very irresponsibley) and it6 will turn out ok, don't hold out much hope for that though.
Home and Away
Well-known member
- Sep 18, 2018
- 382
I don't think he's clever enough
- Aug 24, 2020
- 7,961
The greatest risk to the national security of the US, its allies, Nato, and the broader, newly divided western world, is now sitting in the White House.
fly high
Well-known member
Anger
Well-known member
- Jul 21, 2017
- 840
Sounds like The Donald is buying into the Russki vision where they get to have Europe, China can have Asia and USA can take over The Americas all the way from North to South.
Either that or Pootin does have that video of The Donald which has been rumoured for so long.
Fuk em all I say. Especially The Cowardly Orange.
Either that or Pootin does have that video of The Donald which has been rumoured for so long.
Fuk em all I say. Especially The Cowardly Orange.
papachris
Well-known member
In better news, it's good to see that some countries, including my host country are taking defense spending seriously.
news.err.ee
Minister: Estonia's defense spending will be over 4% of GDP in 2026
Minister of Defense Hanno Pevkur (Reform) said on Wednesday that Estonia's defense spending will be over 4 percent of GDP next year but could not give an exact figure.
news.err.ee
Pavilionaire
Well-known member
- Jul 7, 2003
- 31,455
In answer to your first question, I think they would get booed and support for Europe would be louder.
Yep, I remember the partisan atmosphere of the final day at Brookline, Massachusetts 1999, and that was a course in a staunch blue state.
Yes, it could be bad in September. I can see pissed up, rowdy MAGA causing trouble for Euro players, Euro supporters and Democrat-supporting home fans.