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[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)







Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
54,467
Goldstone
Ukraine obviously, but particularly the land they currently hold. I’ve not read or heard any expert opinions that believe they can take back what was formally theirs

No they can't take it back by force, but they don't have to.

Suffice to say Russia’s resources are also greater than Ukraine’s from an attritional perspective.

But that doesn't matter if their economy collapses.

The biggest danger right now is Trump deciding he wants to be friends with Russia and remove sanctions.
 


Flounce

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Nov 15, 2006
5,461
A meeting between USA and Russia over the war in Ukraine without Ukraine. Disrespect or a sensible idea for a first meeting? I am torn
 


Eric the meek

Fiveways Wilf
NSC Patron
Aug 24, 2020
7,971
A meeting between USA and Russia over the war in Ukraine without Ukraine. Disrespect or a sensible idea for a first meeting? I am torn
On the BBC right now - in a 4 hour meeting, with positive feedback - there was talk about 'normalising diplomatic relations' (embassies), and then a lot of talk of 'normalising economic relations' between the US and Russia.

Does the latter mean a lifting of sanctions? That's my concern.
 


Hamilton

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 7, 2003
13,249
Brighton
On the BBC right now - in a 4 hour meeting, with positive feedback - there was talk about 'normalising diplomatic relations' (embassies), and then a lot of talk of 'normalising economic relations' between the US and Russia.

Does the latter mean a lifting of sanctions? That's my concern.
It's such a shame watching the Yanks getting totally played by the Russians.

How the mighty are fallen.
 




raymondo

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2017
8,313
Wiltshire
That makes sense if they took Ukraine very quickly - three days is often quoted. However, with a grinding war taking a village at a time they only end up with a few captured soldiers and very few older civillians that refuse to move. That's not going to solve their demographics.
Very true... and especially hardly any young women. But lets remember they stole thousands of kids 😡.
 


Pavilionaire

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
31,456
On the BBC right now - in a 4 hour meeting, with positive feedback - there was talk about 'normalising diplomatic relations' (embassies), and then a lot of talk of 'normalising economic relations' between the US and Russia.

Does the latter mean a lifting of sanctions? That's my concern.
If the peace agreement involves Russia gaining land from Ukraine for a second time in 11 years then, clearly, Ukraine as a bare minimum will require security guarantees that it cannot happen a third time.

The problem is Trump likes Putin, he likes Russia and Putin hates NATO and NATO expansion. US withdrawal from NATO is feasible but cannot be done overnight without risking Russia taking over larger parts of Ukraine. If Trump does that he will have blood on his own hands, and will be responsible for the biggest act of US political betrayal ever.
 


raymondo

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2017
8,313
Wiltshire
On the BBC right now - in a 4 hour meeting, with positive feedback - there was talk about 'normalising diplomatic relations' (embassies), and then a lot of talk of 'normalising economic relations' between the US and Russia.

Does the latter mean a lifting of sanctions? That's my concern.
It won't be long before Trump has agreement with Putin on securing 50% of the rare earths in the occupied Donbas, plus weapons sales from the US to Russia. It's the next step.
Ukraine is almost at war with Russia AND the US.
 




US Seagull

Well-known member
Jul 17, 2003
5,211
Cleveland, OH
It's such a shame watching the Yanks getting totally played by the Russians.

How the mighty are fallen.
As much of a boon for Russia this US regime has been (because calling it an administration is to give it too much credit), I feel like ultimately the real winners will be China.

As the US pisses off absolutely everybody in the world, it will push other countries towards closer ties with China as they are a more reliable partner.

最好开始温习一下我们的中文
 


Sirnormangall

Well-known member
Sep 21, 2017
3,342
The war against Russia's shadow fleet continues.

'According to Ukrainska Pravda, Seajewel has, on at least three occasions in recent years, visited the Russian port of Novorossiysk before moving on to Turkey and subsequently to European ports.'


The long arm of Ukraine strikes again………or, by coincidence, simply accidental
 


raymondo

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2017
8,313
Wiltshire
As much of a boon for Russia this US regime has been (because calling it an administration is to give it too much credit), I feel like ultimately the real winners will be China.

As the US pisses off absolutely everybody in the world, it will push other countries towards closer ties with China as they are a more reliable partner.

最好开始温习一下我们的中文
First step for me is... I would buy a BYD in preference to a Tesla.
Second step, sell shares of many US companies. Fxck em.
 






GoldstoneVintage

Well-known member
Oct 20, 2024
323
Europe
On the BBC right now - in a 4 hour meeting, with positive feedback - there was talk about 'normalising diplomatic relations' (embassies), and then a lot of talk of 'normalising economic relations' between the US and Russia.

Does the latter mean a lifting of sanctions? That's my concern.
Yes. Anything else would not be 'normal'. Russia snatching victory from the jaws of defeat only happens with American help. It would confirm everything I've thought about Trump. I pray I'm wrong!!
 


Sirnormangall

Well-known member
Sep 21, 2017
3,342
Kind of understandable in Poland’s case given their troops would have to come from their own borders with Russia/Belorus. It needs to be looked at as defending Europe’s entire border with Russia, including Ukraine’s. Unfortunately, that’s also the point at which the scale of the task becomes clear.
Yes, I sometimes forget about Poland’s (and Lithuania’s) border with Kaliningrad - more than 100 miles
 




Eric the meek

Fiveways Wilf
NSC Patron
Aug 24, 2020
7,971
Yes. Anything else would not be 'normal'. Russia snatching victory from the jaws of defeat only happens with American help. It would confirm everything I've thought about Trump. I pray I'm wrong!!
It is looking grim. Nothing is decided yet - and things can and will change as we move through the peace process - but it looks like Russia will be rewarded for its genocide. Surely this cannot happen? Surely?

Europe, (which I read to be the EU), has announced it will continue with sanctions even if the US lift theirs. We are looking at a division of the west.

The security guarantee had better be tightly written and tightly enforced.
 


vegster

Sanity Clause
May 5, 2008
28,370
It's such a shame watching the Yanks getting totally played by the Russians.

How the mighty are fallen.
And to think we thought Reagan was a right wing looney who was going to cause global chaos!

Sounds like the real agenda is for the US to get sanctions lifted in order to buddy up with the proven little murderer in order to " unlock economic opportunities with Russia ". No scruples whatsoever.....the only thing I can think of why this is happening is because Trump is more scared of China than Russia. If Trump pals up with Vlad they could box in China and prevent ( other than Tiawan ) its expansion.
 




Sirnormangall

Well-known member
Sep 21, 2017
3,342
Yes. Anything else would not be 'normal'. Russia snatching victory from the jaws of defeat only happens with American help. It would confirm everything I've thought about Trump. I pray I'm wrong!!
I share your concerns but think (hope) that it’s too early to call. Trump and his administration may be totally incompetent and being played by Russia. Or Trump could be playing Putin in a cleverly choreographed strategy - after all, he loves stirring the pot and there’s the old saying about keeping your enemies close. However I won’t ask you to vote on this!
 






Eric the meek

Fiveways Wilf
NSC Patron
Aug 24, 2020
7,971
If we are representative (I know we aren't), the world won't need Putin to start a nuclear war. Ukraine, Europe, half of America and others will be going nuclear. Trump will get pushback.

No word from Zelensky yet. Probably wise. I hope he stays several steps ahead of this.
 


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