[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Pavilionaire]

I’ve no faith in Turkey, their leader is also a tyrant and without the US in NATO no one else has anywhere approaching their might even if Turkey ‘stepped up’, which it wouldn’t. In fact I could see it more likely stepping down to act in its own interests if American withdrew. Plus, all the time Russia has nuclear weapons and is crazy enough to use them, I don’t think weakness can be debated.

France and the UK are both nuclear powers, and so if Russia used nuclear weapons they could expect something back.

 

[Sirnormangall]

I don’t disagree, it’s just most don’t think similarly and last I looked my piggy bank alone can’t sustain the uplift that’s needed. Moreover, most of our European NATO members as we know do not / will not pay anywhere near what supposed to never mind more. So we are very much in a minority in our thinking when it comes down to the question of ‘would you pay more?’

Yes, selling the need for higher taxes isn’t easy. I’d prefer to see changes to government spending priorities. But either way I’d like defence spending to increase.

 

[Sirnormangall]

I don’t disagree, it’s just most don’t think similarly and last I looked my piggy bank alone can’t sustain the uplift that’s needed. Moreover, most of our European NATO members as we know do not / will not pay anywhere near what supposed to never mind more. So we are very much in a minority in our thinking when it comes down to the question of ‘would you pay more?’

Yes, selling the need for higher taxes isn’t easy. I’d prefer to see changes to government spending priorities. But either way I’d like defence spending to increase.

 

[portlock seagull]

France and the UK are both nuclear powers, and so if Russia used nuclear weapons they could expect something back.

It’s not quite as simple though, and if Putin fired one at a non member then you can almost guarantee none of NATO’s Nuclear powers would fire back. We would hold a conference and rattle our sabres before unanimous disagreement brought matters to a close. Much like today in fact! Anyway, rather embarrassingly our trident deterrent doesn’t work does it? The last time it was tested?

 

[Bry Nylon]

France and the UK are both nuclear powers, and so if Russia used nuclear weapons they could expect something back.

Our nuclear deterrent is carried on our submarines. The last time the Royal Navy conducted a test missle launch - on 30th January 2024 - the booster rockets on the Trident missle failed and it plopped into the sea next to HMS Vangard, which had just launched it.

The previous test launch (in 2016) fared little better, when the guidance system malfunctioned and the missile veered off course.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Our nuclear deterrent is carried on our submarines. The last time the Royal Navy conducted a test missle launch - on 30th January 2024 - the booster rockets on the Trident missle failed and it plopped into the sea next to HMS Vangard, which had just launched it.

The previous test launch (in 2016) fared little better, when the guidance system malfunctioned and the missile veered off course.

Presumably the MoD will have done something about that. How hard can this be to launch a missile?

 

[portlock seagull]

Our nuclear deterrent is carried on our submarines. The last time the Royal Navy conducted a test missle launch - on 30th January 2024 - the booster rockets on the Trident missle failed and it plopped into the sea next to HMS Vangard, which had just launched it.

The previous test launch (in 2016) fared little better, when the guidance system malfunctioned and the missile veered off course.

This. Starmer is being dangerously disingenuous with his, albeit laudable, commitment to a peace keeping force. We simply don’t have the manpower, even if Europe could agree to supply one! It’s a very very empty proposition, and one we shouldn’t be making. If we increase spending to 5% of GDP and spend the next 10 years steadily building up our armed forces then maybe then. But it’s laughable to even suggest we can commit anything presently. All our enemies know this even if our PM doesn’t!

 

[AZ Gull]

Presumably the MoD will have done something about that. How hard can this be to launch a missile?

Exactly - it ain't rocket science.

 

[portlock seagull]

Presumably the MoD will have done something about that. How hard can this be to launch a missile?

You’d like to think so but our proud military history is littered with such calamities so I’d say there’s every chance it hasn’t. Remember the aircraft carrier we can’t afford aircraft for…?

 

[Bry Nylon]

Presumably the MoD will have done something about that. How hard can this be to launch a missile?

Well apparently each test launch costs £17m so they don’t do them too often.

As Sir Humphrey Appleby would probably say, “better not to do any tests and that way let the Russians think the missles don’t work, rather than actually conduct tests because that way they’ll definitely know the missiles don’t work.”

 

[Pavilionaire]

This. Starmer is being dangerously disingenuous with his, albeit laudable, commitment to a peace keeping force. We simply don’t have the manpower, even if Europe could agree to supply one! It’s a very very empty proposition, and one we shouldn’t be making. If we increase spending to 5% of GDP and spend the next 10 years steadily building up our armed forces then maybe then. But it’s laughable to even suggest we can commit anything presently. All our enemies know this even if our PM doesn’t!

So you're saying we can't commit anything to a peackeeping force and our nuclear deterrent doesn't work and can be disregarded?

 

[Bry Nylon]

So you're saying we can't commit anything to a peackeeping force and our nuclear deterrent doesn't work and can be disregarded?

No. That’s being unnecessarily alarmist.

We have a Territorial Army unit in Godalming on a state of 72hrs readiness, just so long as Terry can get unpaid leave from Travis Perkins.

 

[lasvegan]

Get off this thread.
We have friends and family in Ukraine.
Just feck off. Please

Everything about the man is deep seated evil. Allied to moronic stupidity

Take your swivel eyed comments elsewhere.

Please

My daughter in law’s stepfather is Ukrainian, who is also a dear friend. The last administration did nothing to stop this current nightmare, at least this one is trying to end it.

Feck off yourself, nob…

 

[hampshirebrightonboy]

Better phrased, I think Russia can better afford the longer game. The rest of the West, without America, doesn’t amount to much IMO. Our capacity to maintain a corp of 20-30k just isn’t there for example. And it’s a terribly small number to begin with.

In the short term Russia is struggling with its economy and lack of military equipment. In the long term from a demographic point of view they are in serious trouble.

 

[Nobby]

My daughter in law’s stepfather is Ukrainian, who is also a dear friend. The last administration did nothing to stop this current nightmare, at least this one is trying to end it.

Feck off yourself, nob…

Then you of all people should realise that talking to an aggressor like Putin \ Hitler without involving the victim is a betrayal of everything we hold dear.
So how does you daughter in laws stepfather think it’s going?

You honestly deep down can’t think this is the way to go.
and if you do, then it just reinforces my swivel eyed loon comment.

Like I say. Please get off this thread if you have nothing useful to add.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

My daughter in law’s stepfather is Ukrainian, who is also a dear friend. The last administration did nothing to stop this current nightmare, at least this one is trying to end it.

Feck off yourself, nob…

The last administration provided arms etc to Ukraine. Trump wants a peace that he and his boss Putin benefits from which effectively sells out Ukraine. Your comment ‘trying to end it’ is disingenuous and reads of ‘I agree with every thing that Trump says because I‘m clueless of how the world works outside of the US’.

 

[Hugo Rune]

I can’t see these Russian/US talks lasting very long….

“The US says the talks are a first step to see if Russia is "serious" about ending the war, while Russia says the goal is to normalise relations with America.” BBC

 

[Triggaaar]

Plus, all the time Russia has nuclear weapons and is crazy enough to use them

Russia has proven that they're not crazy enough to use them. They've stated many conditions which would lead to their use, and once those conditions have been met, nothing has happened. That's because their nukes are only any use as a threat, they're not actually any good as a weapon unless your goal is world destruction. Putin and his allies have too much to lose for that.

 

[Triggaaar]

Our nuclear deterrent is carried on our submarines. The last time the Royal Navy conducted a test missle launch - on 30th January 2024 - the booster rockets on the Trident missle failed and it plopped into the sea next to HMS Vangard, which had just launched it.

The previous test launch (in 2016) fared little better, when the guidance system malfunctioned and the missile veered off course.

And the last time Russia tested a nuclear missile? 1990.

They're not going to be firing nukes.

 

[Triggaaar]

The last administration did nothing to stop this current nightmare, at least this one is trying to end it.

The last administration did supply weapons to Ukraine and sanction the use of weapons on Russian soil, so that Ukraine could defend itself. It also imposed sanctions on Russia to weaken their war effort. These actions help Ukraine win, and eventually end the war. Trump is not currently trying to end the war, he's just playing at trying to be a leader. He's not even aware that a peace deal can't be struck without both parties at war. As you will see, the war will continue after his photo op in Saudi.