[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[happypig]

If you're right, what would be the point? The war will continue, Trump won't support Ukraine, the US's relations with allies will worsen, Trump won't get paid for what the US has already delivered, the US economy will suffer, and in return Trump gets what exactly? Makes no sense to me.

The point, for Trump, is nothing to do with Ukraine. It's about his ability to perpetuate his presidency/legacy. At present he cannot be president again, but you can bet your life he is looking for a way to amend the US constitution to allow a further term, just as Putin did in 2020.

 

[raymondo]

Jake is very good as always.
All the shitty stuff at the beginning, then more positive views on what's been discussed lately, ...starting soon after 20 mins.

 

[Cordwainer]

He doesn’t give a flying f@ck about anybody other than himself and his cronies..he’ll want his legacy to show that he was the president that got deals done (bit like his self image of the worlds greatest businessman)..irrespective of what the outcome of those deals are.

 

[raymondo]

Jake Broe says that it's confusing that, during yesterday's White House press blah blah, General Kellog wasn't mentioned as being included in the negotiations. Is it an oversight or is he seen as too pro Ukraine .
Concerning.

 

[raymondo]

The adult in the room

 

[raymondo]

An adviser to Ukrainian President Zelensky’s chief of staff warns that if Ukraine isn't supported by the international community, Russia will launch similar attacks against Nato territory.

"And if our friends understand this, we will have their support," Serhiy Leshchenko tells the BBC World Service's Newsday programme.

The political advisor says Ukraine is "defending the rules of the game" of global institutions and security established after World War Two.

"If Ukraine isn't supported, you'll pay a much higher price in the future," Leshchenko says, adding that there's "no other country that wants the end of this war more than Ukraine".

"But we're looking for security guarantees," he says.

 

[armchairclubber]

An adviser to Ukrainian President Zelensky’s chief of staff warns that if Ukraine isn't supported by the international community, Russia will launch similar attacks against Nato territory.

Are we now just waiting for Trump to fully declare which 'side' he is on? It's not sounding possible to propitiate both.
He appears to be digging a bit of a hole here, perhaps he's confident of finding minerals.

 

[happypig]

An adviser to Ukrainian President Zelensky’s chief of staff warns that if Ukraine isn't supported by the international community, Russia will launch similar attacks against Nato territory.

"And if our friends understand this, we will have their support," Serhiy Leshchenko tells the BBC World Service's Newsday programme.

The political advisor says Ukraine is "defending the rules of the game" of global institutions and security established after World War Two.

"If Ukraine isn't supported, you'll pay a much higher price in the future," Leshchenko says, adding that there's "no other country that wants the end of this war more than Ukraine".

"But we're looking for security guarantees," he says.

"guarantees" mean nothing from Putin. Russia needs to be emasculated until such time as they can be trusted and that likely means regime change at the very minimum.
Western Europe needs to accept this and plan/prepare for it. Trump needs to decide which side he's on; there is no fence-sitting on this.

 

[Eric the meek]

Vance is reported as saying US troops may go into Ukraine.

If the report is true (not the troops), then the kind way to describe it is mixed messages. The other way to describe it is the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing, and the peace process is descending into a dangerous, unworkable chaos.

Ukraine deserves better than this.

 

[Marty McFly]

Vance is reported as saying US troops may go into Ukraine.

If the report is true (not the troops), then the kind way to describe it is mixed messages. The other way to describe it is the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing, and the peace process is descending into a dangerous, unworkable chaos.

Ukraine deserves better than this.

Without wishing to derail the valuable commentary and analysis in this thread - I think we can look at US's messaging re Canada and the 51st State / Tariffs to see that the messaging from this administration is - at best - haphazard. At worst - deliberately disingenuous.

 

[Eric the meek]

Without wishing to derail the valuable commentary and analysis in this thread - I think we can look at US's messaging re Canada and the 51st State / Tariffs to see that the messaging from this administration is - at best - haphazard. At worst - deliberately disingenuous.

I get what you're saying. I read this morning that the idea of turning Gaza into some kind of riviera was chaff. A deliberate diversionary tactic to take away from the power grab that is taking place in the US.

 

[Flounce]

Zelensky must be trying very hard not to call Trump a **** when he talks about him

 

[armchairclubber]

I get what you're saying. I read this morning that the idea of turning Gaza into some kind of riviera was chaff. A deliberate diversionary tactic to take away from the power grab that is taking place in the US.

When Trump sits down with Netenyahu and they reveal what you have long thought were their intentions, I'm inclined to take them at face value!
Sounds interesting though, are you able to link to the article? (there was always likely to be some backtrack)

 

[raymondo]

Vance is reported as saying US troops may go into Ukraine.

If the report is true (not the troops), then the kind way to describe it is mixed messages. The other way to describe it is the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing, and the peace process is descending into a dangerous, unworkable chaos.

Ukraine deserves better than this.

Exactly. Flip flop messaging, only Ukraine and Europe (well, most of)are trying to message consistently.

 

[raymondo]

Zelensky must be trying very hard not to call Trump a **** when he talks about him

Zelenskiy is quite the statesman - he's amazing.

 

[raymondo]

I get what you're saying. I read this morning that the idea of turning Gaza into some kind of riviera was chaff. A deliberate diversionary tactic to take away from the power grab that is taking place in the US.

I read that too... somewhere

 

[raymondo]

Without wishing to derail the valuable commentary and analysis in this thread - I think we can look at US's messaging re Canada and the 51st State / Tariffs to see that the messaging from this administration is - at best - haphazard. At worst - deliberately disingenuous.

Not even close to a derail! Trump's behavior anywhere is important to understand on this thread

 

[raymondo]

Statement by the governments of the large European companies (clearly triggered by announcements by Trump etc).

Weimar+ Statement by Germany, France, Poland, Italy, Spain, the United Kingdom, the European External Action Service and the European Commission

Joint Statement by Germany, France, Poland, Italy, Spain, the United Kingdom, the European External Action Service and the European Commission.

www.gov.uk

 

[Insel affe]

you can bet your life he is looking for a way to amend the US constitution to allow a further term, just as Putin did in 2020.

Yep, I said this a couple of years ago and my American wife and family seemed adamant he would not and further would not be allowed to change the constitution it is sacred.

 

[raymondo]

Vance states that the proven Russian interference in the election in Romania is no biggie and Romania should just suck it up.
I believe they are preparing the ground for US and especially Musk's interference in elections whenever they want.
F*ck these guys...and I'm very pleased he didn't get any laughs for his Greta Thunberg 'joke'.

But it is ok of course to encourage your people to attack the White House when you lose an election.