[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Berty23]

Vance is reported as saying US troops may go into Ukraine.

If the report is true (not the troops), then the kind way to describe it is mixed messages. The other way to describe it is the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing, and the peace process is descending into a dangerous, unworkable chaos.

Ukraine deserves better than this.

With a Russian badge on their sleeve?

 

[Berty23]

Have Tom Clancy booked and films been banned in America yet?

 

[Eric the meek]

When Trump sits down with Netenyahu and they reveal what you have long thought were their intentions, I'm inclined to take them at face value!
Sounds interesting though, are you able to link to the article? (there was always likely to be some backtrack)

There's a running joke on here, perhaps known only to the regulars, that as we are in and out of loads of articles, Youtube videos, twitter posts etc, quite often we can't remember where we read something, hence 'I read somewhere....'.

We always try to link an article, but when we don't manage to, it is only because we have forgotten where we read it, or we can't find it. Three years on this thread means that we know and trust each other enough to be certain that whatever someone claimed to have read, they did indeed read it.

The link you are asking for may have been in the Vatnik Soup link posted above, the Trump thread, or a Carole Cadwalladr article about the 'digital coup' going on in the US. How I got to it, I'm afraid I can't remember.

 

[Triggaaar]

The point, for Trump, is nothing to do with Ukraine. It's about his ability to perpetuate his presidency/legacy. At present he cannot be president again, but you can bet your life he is looking for a way to amend the US constitution to allow a further term, just as Putin did in 2020.

And how will a failed attempt at peace help him with that?

 

[raymondo]

Good (at least I think it's good) an important guy calls out the sea change in US behavior.

 

[Triggaaar]

I read that too... somewhere

It's on one on the links on this or the Trump thread.

 

[happypig]

And how will a failed attempt at peace help him with that?

He won't play it as failed. He will play it as Putin was willing but Zelensky wasn't. It'll be everyone else's fault but his. It's the way he rolls.

 

[fly high]

He won't play it as failed. He will play it as Putin was willing but Zelensky wasn't. It'll be everyone else's fault but his. It's the way he rolls.

Yep, egotistic megalomaniac who wants to be Putin of the west.

 

[fly high]

Good (at least I think it's good) an important guy calls out the sea change in US behavior.

Trump's response:- give a shit.

 

[Triggaaar]

He won't play it as failed. He will play it as Putin was willing but Zelensky wasn't. It'll be everyone else's fault but his. It's the way he rolls.

Sure, but that's not relevant to the point - how does doing that help him change the US constitution to allow a further term?

 

[happypig]

Sure, but that's not relevant to the point - how does doing that help him change the US constitution to allow a further term?

He wants to come across as the man who can do anything and who America cannot do without. He doesn't want his legacy to be just another president, he wants to be the first of a dynasty. If he (and Musk) can convince the MAGA morons then he's halfway there.
That's my take on him anyway.

 

[A1X]

Yep, I said this a couple of years ago and my American wife and family seemed adamant he would not and further would not be allowed to change the constitution it is sacred.

And nobody has ever been able to make amendments to the constitution or anything...

 

[A1X]

 

[fly high]

Not sure if this should be on this thread or the Trump thread but question. If Trump is refusing to protect European countries, while not actually leaving NATO but presumably refusing to comply with Article 5, should we preempt this & take control by expelling them?

 

[Triggaaar]

I agree with Fabian:

 

[Hugo Rune]

He wants to come across as the man who can do anything and who America cannot do without. He doesn't want his legacy to be just another president, he wants to be the first of a dynasty. If he (and Musk) can convince the MAGA morons then he's halfway there.
That's my take on him anyway.

I’m with you in respect of the fact Trump only does what is good for him.

But I think there are a few more things going on here. He has spoken about bagging the Nobel Peace prize which feeds into the legacy stuff you are talking about. In addition, Trump is new money. A continuation of the war is worth nothing to him. Those American billionaires and millionaires making the dollar out of sales to the US government of arms sent to Ukraine are not his people, they are old money.

He wants to get the contracts for oil, gas and rare earths in Ukraine. He wants the property and rebuilding deals in Ukraine, he wants the sort of business ties and money making opportunities he thought the Bidens had there.

Trump sees money and opportunity for himself in peace. That’s why I think he’ll get it.

 

[raymondo]

Not sure if this should be on this thread or the Trump thread but question. If Trump is refusing to protect European countries, while not actually leaving NATO but presumably refusing to comply with Article 5, should we preempt this & take control by expelling them?

I was thinking the same. He mainly wants to 'secure the rare earths' seemingly.
It'll never happen (expulsion of US) but Europe could form it's own defense coalition, stop buying US weapons (when we're ready, without announcing), kick them out of their US air bases in Europe. I dunno, I guess Europe needs to be very careful cos the US has more nukes than us - question is, would they ever actually protect Europe properly under Trump and Vance

 

[Triggaaar]

He wants to come across as the man who can do anything

But 1) Ukraine and Russia will continue fighting, so pretending that he achieved the peace he promised within 24 hours will be tricky and 2) it doesn't matter if his fans think they can't do without him, that doesn't get him a third term.

 

[fly high]

But 1) Ukraine and Russia will continue fighting, so pretending that he achieved the peace he promised within 24 hours will be tricky and 2) it doesn't matter if his fans think they can't do without him, that doesn't get him a third term.

With congress & senate in his pocket plus attack on judiciary don't rule out change to get him a third or even 4th term.

 

[Eric the meek]

I was thinking the same. He mainly wants to 'secure the rare earths' seemingly.
It'll never happen (expulsion of US) but Europe could form it's own defense coalition, stop buying US weapons (when we're ready, without announcing), kick them out of their US air bases in Europe. I dunno, I guess Europe needs to be very careful cos the US has more nukes than us - question is, would they ever actually protect Europe properly under Trump and Vance

Talking of nukes, if you have time before the football, do try to catch this from Paul Warburg. It's rather encouraging...