[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[cunning fergus]

I don't think you're going to get many on here agreeing to that.

But the best of luck in your future trolling career on this thread

Maybe not at the moment, however the point is that if the U.K. is to remain on security council and active top tier NATO member a financial boost to the defence budget is only part of the algorithm.

If British people (new or historical) don’t wish to fight for Britain or its perceived interests, then better to save the money and accept a different future.

Seems sensible to me, and works for other countries like Ireland.

 

[Eric the meek]

Again, we have the mixed messages...

 

[Eric the meek]

Maybe not at the moment, however the point is that if the U.K. is to remain on security council and active top tier NATO member a financial boost to the defence budget is only part of the algorithm.

If British people (new or historical) don’t wish to fight for Britain or its perceived interests, then better to save the money and accept a different future.

Seems sensible to me, and works for other countries like Ireland.

Please refrain from trying to derail this thread.

It is much too important for you to pursue your divisive agenda on here.

 

[raymondo]

Polls are Polls so are purely indicative. However we’re probably approaching 20% of the population being foreign born, and if you chuck in another 20% 1st or 2nd generation of foreign born parents who are historically unattached to the U.K. in a positive way there’s 40% are not proud to be British.

For the “native” population the question is what and who are you fighting (and dying for). It’s understandable in such a fractured country with different identities that there isn’t much to coalesce that sense of sacrifice around. I’m surprised the % willing to fight is as high as 11%.

If the poll is even half right the writing is on the wall. Better to step back from security council and interfering in top table politics than keep bluffing.

Good points sadly

 

[raymondo]

Again, we have the mixed messages...

Yes, all the sticks are being thrown up in the air

 

[Triggaaar]

7.30am - 94 Rubles to the dollar.
7.50am - 90.68.

The markets betting on Ukraine being sold down the river

 

[Eric the meek]

Yes, all the sticks are being thrown up in the air

You could be forgiven for thinking it was deliberate.

Consider who Trump has selected. Decent people like Kellogg and Bessent.

But then there's Hegseth. It's almost as if he was picked to ruffle a few feathers.

 

[Eric the meek]

The markets betting on Ukraine being sold down the river

Yes, I'm wondering about that. Automatic trades submitted overnight, that are executed when the market opens.

 

[armchairclubber]

Polls are polls so are purely indicative. However we’re probably approaching 20% of the population being foreign born, and if you chuck in another 20% 1st or 2nd generation of foreign born parents who are historically unattached to the U.K. in a positive way there’s 40% are not proud to be British.

For the “native” population the question is what and who are you fighting (and dying for). It’s understandable in such a fractured country with different identities that there isn’t much to coalesce that sense of sacrifice around. I’m surprised the % willing to fight is as high as 11%.

If the poll is even half right the writing is on the wall. Better to step back from security council and interfering in top table politics than keep bluffing.

I think you make some very valid points and would not be surprised by the poll findings. Can fully understand why this generation wants no part in the military in witnessing the Leaders and policies given to us over the last ten years. Then Imagine the prospect of Farage.
I'll add that it's also quite possible to be born of 'British' parents in this country and still not be proud to be 'British'.

Reeves could spend a gazillion on defence but unlike the Ukrainians who are still blood and soil patriots, the same cannot be said about this country.

Just 4 in 10 Young Britons Proud to Be British, Only 11% Would Fight for It, The Times/YouGov Poll Finds

The Times and YouGov study reveals that only 41% of Britons aged 18 to 27 take pride in being British—less than half the figure recorded in similar research two

search.app

I have no doubt these findings echo the state of the U.K. youth and even wider views pre Gen Z generations. We’d be better off stepping back from interfering in international affairs and de arming. Let those who want to fight for Ukraine or Palestine do so.

Hopefully it's first OK to campaign our Government to stop arming and engaging our forces in military collaboration with Israel, at least for now.

 

[raymondo]

Kuleba's opinion

Dmytro Kuleba: Trump’s rare earth deal risks Ukraine repeating history’s mistakes

On Feb. 10, 2025, U.S. President Donald Trump claimed that he aimed to secure “$500 billion worth of rare earth” minerals as part of negotiations over continued U.S. support for Ukraine amid its war with Russia. When history repeats itself, it’s time to reflect. At the beginning

kyivindependent.com

 

[raymondo]

That was a good target. Prepare the ground for what may be needed...

 

[Triggaaar]

Kuleba's opinion

Dmytro Kuleba: Trump’s rare earth deal risks Ukraine repeating history’s mistakes

On Feb. 10, 2025, U.S. President Donald Trump claimed that he aimed to secure “$500 billion worth of rare earth” minerals as part of negotiations over continued U.S. support for Ukraine amid its war with Russia. When history repeats itself, it’s time to reflect. At the beginning

kyivindependent.com

While it's interesting what happened, Germany of 1918 and the US are different.

Trump's deal for resources would be viable if a) Ukraine get their land back now, or b) the US provide enough support to Ukraine to get their land back later.

It doesn't work if there's simply a peace deal that gives the land to Russia. In that scenario, what would Ukraine be paying for?

 

[Eric the meek]

That was a good target. Prepare the ground for what may be needed...

A good target indeed. Remove the barriers.

Destroying radar systems around the seat of power is a statement of intent.

I'm no military strategist, but are there any decent military targets within say, a kilometre or two of the Kremlin?

 

[Seasider78]

Can’t help but think Trump approaches these things like business deals and is using this as a ‘well there was a peace deal on the table and Ukraine and the EU blocked it so we are removing funding as we can’t see an end to the war’

Let’s not forget here is a guy that has been making vocal calls for land grabs for months and now talks almost admirably about Putin fairly winning a bit of his own in Ukraine.

Chaotic and dangerous times ahead

 

[Eric the meek]

I wish Trump was as clear as NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte.

 

[raymondo]

Here's UK Govt official position as chair of the summit. Some interesting detail (amongst the blah blah), e.g. we've provided 10,000 drones to Ukraine this past year.

UK leads major Ukraine Summit and announces £150 million firepower package

Defence leaders from across the world have gathered in Brussels today as the UK convenes a major Ukraine summit at NATO HQ.

www.gov.uk

 

[raymondo]

I wish Trump was as clear as NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte.

I agree it's clear, but of course I worry about Trump ploughing his own furrow.
Weird isn't it, that Trump is the power broker (supposedly...on the side of the West), but has said it's Europe's job to support the result.

 

[GoldstoneVintage]

A good target indeed. Remove the barriers.

Destroying radar systems around the seat of power is a statement of intent.

I'm no military strategist, but are there any decent military targets within say, a kilometre or two of the Kremlin?

The Kremlin?

 

[papachris]

I think on the off chance that Russia keeps Crimea that now would be a great time go take down the Kerch bridge

 

[Nobby]

Polls are Polls so are purely indicative. However we’re probably approaching 20% of the population being foreign born, and if you chuck in another 20% 1st or 2nd generation of foreign born parents who are historically unattached to the U.K. in a positive way there’s 40% are not proud to be British.

For the “native” population the question is what and who are you fighting (and dying for). It’s understandable in such a fractured country with different identities that there isn’t much to coalesce that sense of sacrifice around. I’m surprised the % willing to fight is as high as 11%.

If the poll is even half right the writing is on the wall. Better to step back from security council and interfering in top table politics than keep bluffing.

It’s all about peace and love. Why do we have to fight anyone?

Twat