armchairclubber
Well-known member
Just for you're info no you haven't, at least you've been giving them a fair bit of support and thumbs up over the last couple of weeks.
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[News] Middle East conflict
- Thread starter Greenbag50
- Start date
I hope I haven't been applauding people for abusing zeberdi
armchairclubber
Well-known member
No, just some encouragement it looks like to me.I hope I haven't been applauding people for abusing zeberdi
aolstudios
Well-known member
& there it is. Trope number two.
The imagined massive Jewish influence.
You're collecting the set
I tend to give a thumbs up if I happen to find comments interesting. There are plenty of posters whose views overlap with some of mine, and perhaps in some cases, only a few of mine. I take each post as I find it, in the first instance. If I find people are pursuing a snide agenda then I am likely to put them on ignore. If I have given a thumbs up to someone who has elsewhere written something obnoxious I may not have picked up on it. Sufficed to say I have made my views on the Israel/Gaza debacle very clear. The person I have given most thumbs up to on this thread is undoubtedly @Zeberdi
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aolstudios
Well-known member
WIDESPREAD RAPE committed by HAMAS ON OCTOBER 7 - propaganda, hearsay or true?
Further to the link, I posted above, I am absolutely not saying these claims are untrue (and if they are true then that’s horrific) just that the bodies found were not examined for forensic evidence of assault before they were burned or buried, nor interviews done with any survivors of the alleged rape (despite all the claims of testimony after testimony) - in fact no survivors of rape have been produced according to EI The one witness on Israel’s video to the Western media claiming to have seen a woman being gang raped with her own eyes also says in the next breath, “ Hamas soldiers were celebrating with decapitated Israeli heads on sticks” - no first hand proof or evidence for that has been found.
Therefore, before taking what you read in the media as being the absolute truth about these allegations of systematic rape and assault by Hamas on 7 October, and before accusing anyone that questions them to be on the side of Hamas allow yourselves the benefit of at least considering an alternative explanation, then decide what you want to believe …but you won’t find it on X or unadulterated form of it in the Western media - the real truth might be somewhere in between.
Please - Just watch the video by Electronic Intifada - it’s basically saying what I have been trying to say above…and what the report says that I linked to …and while I don’t go as far as debunking the mass rape claim myself, I at least take it on board as a possibility that the claims of systematic rape by Hamas on October 7 are emanating out of a very sophisticated propaganda exercise:
This is also food for thought - Are the English translations of Arabic videos depicting Hamas being posted on Social media accurate?
EI are an independent group covering the Israeli Palestinian conflict
The Electronic Intifada - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
'Electronic Intifada'
The clue's in the name ffs
aolstudios
Well-known member
Or that your definitions differ to his
aolstudios
Well-known member
This ^
Ahh, another term almost only ever used by members of the Jewish faith, trope. Have you copyrighted it yet so that others who use it can be accused of antisemitism?& there it is. Trope number two.
The imagined massive Jewish influence.
You're collecting the set
You did read the whole post about the numbers involved? And could you justify why the UK, and other western governments, pay so much attention to the views of a minority religious group over and above the more popular view from their electorates?
aolstudios
Well-known member
It's in IHRA.
Maybe read it?
I have, along with a variety of other sources of info. Unlike you who will only entertain sources that confirm your closed mind viewpoint and ignore anything that might deem to criticise Israel/Judaism.
Awaits pathetic laughing emoji.
Have you answered anyone’s question so far?
You seem to be ignoring them and reacting with a laughing emoji mockingly.
Billy the Fish
Technocrat
What do you think about @Zeberdi's last post trying to downplay and deny mass sexual violence against women? Is it factual and balanced to tell us to ignore overwhelming evidence in the MSM and believe a dubious video?
sydney
tinky ****in winky
yeah ...nah
aolstudios
Well-known member
Well, exactly.
Hence my increasing suspicion
Billy the Fish
Technocrat
Yep, the most consistently disingenuous poster I've ever seen on NSC.
Could you provide a source / sources of this evidence please?
armchairclubber
Well-known member
For my own understanding of this conflict, I take this article into account.
www.timesofisrael.com
"For years, the various governments led by Benjamin Netanyahu took an approach that divided power between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank — bringing Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to his knees while making moves that propped up the Hamas terror group.
The idea was to prevent Abbas — or anyone else in the Palestinian Authority’s West Bank government — from advancing toward the establishment of a Palestinian state.
Thus, amid this bid to impair Abbas, Hamas was upgraded from a mere terror group to an organization with which Israel held indirect negotiations via Egypt, and one that was allowed to receive infusions of cash from abroad"
For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it's blown up in our faces - The Times of Israel
The premier's policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from
www.timesofisrael.com
"For years, the various governments led by Benjamin Netanyahu took an approach that divided power between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank — bringing Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to his knees while making moves that propped up the Hamas terror group.
The idea was to prevent Abbas — or anyone else in the Palestinian Authority’s West Bank government — from advancing toward the establishment of a Palestinian state.
Thus, amid this bid to impair Abbas, Hamas was upgraded from a mere terror group to an organization with which Israel held indirect negotiations via Egypt, and one that was allowed to receive infusions of cash from abroad"
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& there it is. Trope number two.
The imagined massive Jewish influence.
You're collecting the set
I must admit when I read that post and the following ones I did think it was straying towards the Jews Run the World conspiracy. However, it's worth exploring why these tropes exist.
Firstly, Jews do indeed hold some prominent positions, their people having been economically successful for over a thousand years. You wouldn't deny that, would you? It should be a point of pride and there are interesting historico-cultural reasons why it is the case.
Secondly, particularly in the US, Jewish groups do hold some sway, from Truman's relationship with Jacobson to AIPAC today. That's not to say they dictate policy but they certainly have the ear of those in high places.
All that being said, there are good moral as well as practical reasons why western governments would support Israel. That support shouldn't be unconditional though.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 6,905
That is not what I am doing and you know it - I have provided information that is pertinent to the Israeli Government use of propaganda, the lack of impartiality of Israeli officials, the IDF and some of the witnesses that were relied on. I said make up your own mind on whether there are individual incidences of one or two rapes or the ‘evidence’ proves that Hamas conducted the widespread assault and rape of women as part of the other atrocities they committed. The New York Times reports a probable ‘pattern of abuse’ based on reports from Israeli officials, Zaka (the emergence response services) videos supplied by the Israeli military and interviews with Israeli hearsay ‘witnesses’ but acknowledge that there are no witness statements by any person claiming to have been assaulted themselves and there is a lack of forensic evidence or rape kits used - as such, these alleged war crimes will be hard to prove in the ICC as war crimes - and could take years.
The NYT states “The Israeli police have acknowledged that, during the shock and confusion of Oct. 7, the deadliest day in Israeli history, they were not focused on collecting semen samples from women’s bodies, requesting autopsies or closely examining crime scenes.”. and “Many volunteers working for ZAKA, the emergency response team, are religious Jews and operate under strict rules that command deep respect for the dead. “I did not take pictures because we are not allowed to take pictures,” said Yossi Landau, a ZAKA volunteer. “In retrospect, I regret it.”. There are at least three women and one man who were sexually assaulted and survived, according to Gil Horev, a spokesman for Israel’s Ministry of Welfare and Social Affairs. “None of them has been willing to come physically for treatment ..”
None of this (and more) debunks any of the claims IMO but it does make the claims problematic in a number of areas because much of it is hearsay and videos/photos of the scenes by people with a hatred of Palestinians and Hamas that were not forensically analysed and reports/videos supplied by the IDF/Israeli security forces. I think it is very likely that some Hamas militants did commit sexual assault whilst carrying out the October 7 but whether it was limited to half a dozen cases out of hundreds and hundreds of female victims or was a widespread and systematic tool of terror as is being claimed, remains questionable on evidentiary grounds - I think it is important to understand the ‘evidence’ gathering process by MSM, the sources used and the likely impartiality of the witnesses relied on, including those who have posted video content onto social media and recognise that reporters‘ access to Israeli witnesses in Israel and the content of their testimony is tightly controlled by the Israeli military/security forces.
Sage advice.