Madeira Drive - Cost of Parking

[drew]

No. I'm not claiming that Taunton is the same as Brighton. I gave you a quick pointer towards your request for any studies that show that with no traffic, local businesses thrive. There are plenty (and some, no doubt, more relevant to Brighton than the Taunton case). That particular study does include a few other examples.

I can't remember the details, but there was a survey done in the 1990s of shoppers' spending in Churchill Square. When it was published, it surprised the major traders how much was being spent in their shops by bus passengers and people who had walked to the town centre. Marks & Spencer and Boots, in particular, became great advocates of a park & ride scheme for Brighton and the removal of cars from Western Road.

But you're missing the point I was making. I asked who has benefited when there has been 'no' traffic, not just when a particular area has been pedestrianised. The charges in Brighton are prohibitive and surely designed to discourage people driving to Brighton in the first place. I'm all for pedestrianised areas but you also need to get people to those areas. Also, Brighton is not just about shopping, it is, in the summer, a major tourist destination. Can you point to any specific studies that show towns that ban cars have seen tourism and, more importantly, the amount they spend, go up?

 

[Lord Bracknell]

But you're missing the point I was making. I asked who has benefited when there has been 'no' traffic, not just when a particular area has been pedestrianised. The charges in Brighton are prohibitive and surely designed to discourage people driving to Brighton in the first place. I'm all for pedestrianised areas but you also need to get people to those areas. Also, Brighton is not just about shopping, it is, in the summer, a major tourist destination. Can you point to any specific studies that show towns that ban cars have seen tourism and, more importantly, the amount they spend, go up?

Siena? Aberdeen? Norwich? Berlin? York? Oxford? Durham? And - obviously - Venice.

 

[wellquickwoody]

No, but our economy pretty much is, which is why this policy of driving motorists away is suicidal.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Out of interest have you ever voted Tory?

Yes, as well as Labour, Lib Dem, UKIP and, god forgive me, Green.

 

[Seagull Steve]

As a disabled person, I have decided to give up my car. This is a huge decision for me, but I have asked myself many times if the cost of fuel, and the traffic jams are all worth it. I know this discussion is really about parking, and I have no problem with this as I have a blue badge. But I live in Moulsecoomb, and when these 'improvements' are made, driving down Lewes Rd will be a nightmare. I have a mobility scooter and a powerchair, and I will rely on them and buses from now on.

 

[drew]

Siena? Aberdeen? Norwich? Berlin? York? Oxford? Durham? And - obviously - Venice.

So in all these cities there are no cars? (and I'm not talking just about the city centre, I mean the whole city!)

 

[Lush]

It seems to me that the charges on Madeira Drive are exploiting the first time visitor to Brighton, who will get caught unawares and pay up due to lack of knowledge of any other option. Much like the NCP Theatre car park on Church Street, that reeled in the unsuspecting user from out of town for a good while (but ended up having to change their evening tariff - a salutary lesson, I'd have thought.)

The problem is, the cost is SO outrageous that it can easily spoil someone's day or evening out and therefore their experience of Brighton, putting them off returning.

 

[Hotchilidog]

For anyone who is finding the cost of buses prohibitive, go to Brighton & Hove Buses and register for the smart card key a one day saver will be £3.20 or it's £15.00 for the week. I never even knew this existed until I read about the bus prices going up in The Argus today. The card is free and sent to your home.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

So in all these cities there are no cars? (and I'm not talking just about the city centre, I mean the whole city!)

If you can identify the city, I'll find the study. As far as I am aware, there are NO cities ANYWHERE that have banned cars from the whole city.

And what's the relevance of this to Brighton? No-one wants to ban cars from the whole city here.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

As a disabled person, I have decided to give up my car. This is a huge decision for me, but I have asked myself many times if the cost of fuel, and the traffic jams are all worth it. I know this discussion is really about parking, and I have no problem with this as I have a blue badge. But I live in Moulsecoomb, and when these 'improvements' are made, driving down Lewes Rd will be a nightmare. I have a mobility scooter and a powerchair, and I will rely on them and buses from now on.

Most of the traffic nightmare that is Lewes Road is caused by inappropriately parked cars and vans, badly designed junctions, inefficiently phased traffic lights and tail backs from specific trouble spots. Interestingly, there is significantly less traffic using Lewes Road now than there was when it was part of the A27 "South Coast Trunk Road". With a sensible re-design of how the road space is used, there are opportunities to improve facilities for buses, cyclists and pedestrians without creating worse conditions for car drivers. That's what the new scheme is planned to do.

The bus stop improvements in Moulsecoomb should improve facilities for wheelchair users who travel by bus. And a direct bus route to Brighton Station will be handy.

 

[drew]

If you can identify the city, I'll find the study. As far as I am aware, there are NO cities ANYWHERE that have banned cars from the whole city.

And what's the relevance of this to Brighton? No-one wants to ban cars from the whole city here.

As Tim Robbins said, "you're being obtuse". The point being made, which I suspect you are well aware of, is that the prohibitive parking charges are intended to deter out of town visitors from driving into town and encourage them to use public transport instead. You introduced the theory that pedestrianisation is good for business and I merely challenged that on the basis that you still need to get to the pedestrianised area. Fine if you are a local and just hop on a bus but for those of us that visit Brighton from the outside, that is not very practical.

 

[BLOCK F]

We live near Chichester and very rarely visit Brighton now due to the cost and hassle of parking.Additionally,the last train from Brighton to Chichester is at 11.14 pm I believe, which has certainly curtailed my offsprings' evening visits.
Although it is further away,my wife and I tend to head west if we want to get away for the day.Yes ,a bit more petrol,but cheaper and easier parking in Poole and Bournemouth,so there isn't much in it really and I have to say I do prefer the coast and countryside of Hampshire and Dorset to that of the Brighton area.
Wife likes the Brighton shopping,so gets the train!

 

[Lord Bracknell]

As Tim Robbins said, "you're being obtuse". The point being made, which I suspect you are well aware of, is that the prohibitive parking charges are intended to deter out of town visitors from driving into town and encourage them to use public transport instead. You introduced the theory that pedestrianisation is good for business and I merely challenged that on the basis that you still need to get to the pedestrianised area. Fine if you are a local and just hop on a bus but for those of us that visit Brighton from the outside, that is not very practical.

No. You introduced the theory that public transport priority is bad for business. It isn't.

 

[drew]

No. You introduced the theory that public transport priority is bad for business. It isn't.

Where did I say that then? You seem to re-write my posts just as much as you re-write history on the Falklands thread. Out of interest, do you actually own a car or do you have a young family? I get the impression that you use buses because it suits you and your way of life hence your big downer on cars, or at least that is how it appears!

 

[Garage_Doors]

No-one wants to ban cars from the whole city here.

Are you serious
As a family of 5 i can no longer afford to take them into Brighton due to the increased parking charges and certainly cannot afford the bus fares. So i will no longer be spending my hard earn't in Brighton but go to other towns that are more car friendly, I can't be alone can I?
They are pricing tourist out of coming to Brighton.
With these new measures i can't see Brighton continuing to be a tourist destination.

 

[Garage_Doors]

No. You introduced the theory that public transport priority is bad for business. It isn't.

It is bad for my as i will no longer be able to afford to go into Brighton, and it will be very bad for the tourists market because:
a) they can't bring the whole family in by car because of parking costs.
b) no park & ride facilities.
c) Too inconvenient to use trains and buses so they will choose other destinations that are more car friendly.

Brighton businesses will lose valuable revenue.

Xmas shopping? Who is going to take a family shopping on a bus and carry it all? It won't happen the public will got to Eastbourne or Crawley as it will be more convenient.
Of course public transport priority will be bad for business.
How can it possibly not be. Delivery drivers have to drive vans lorryies to keep the shops stocked and these same vehicles will have the lane restrictions/time delays as the rest of the cars.

As said above you are only viewing from your own perspective as a free & easy single person (Don't mean not married but travel alone) who can come & go as you please. If you had a young family in tow I'm sure you would see it differently of which you are either refusing or do not want to see, it seems you are anti cars and pro buses without wanting to see both side, not a good trait given you line of work.

 

[mune ni kamome]

No. I'm not claiming that Taunton is the same as Brighton. I gave you a quick pointer towards your request for any studies that show that with no traffic, local businesses thrive. There are plenty (and some, no doubt, more relevant to Brighton than the Taunton case). That particular (short) study does include a few other examples.

I can't remember the details, but there was a survey done in the 1990s of shoppers' spending in Churchill Square. When it was published, it surprised the major traders how much was being spent in their shops by bus passengers and people who had walked to the town centre. Marks & Spencer and Boots, in particular, became great advocates of a park & ride scheme for Brighton and the removal of cars from Western Road.

In actual fact the pedestrianised area in Taunton is very small. All the major shops, M & S, Debenhams, BHS etc are on a large main road running through

 

[TotallyFreaked]

It is bad for my as i will no longer be able to afford to go into Brighton, and it will be very bad for the tourists market because:
a) they can't bring the whole family in by car because of parking costs.
b) no park & ride facilities.
c) Too inconvenient to use trains and buses so they will choose other destinations that are more car friendly.

I don't think that Brighton particularly caters for the family seaside holiday market any more and so tourism would not be that badly hit. If you look at the large number of cars that come into Brighton at the weekend most will be young couples or groups of friends coming down for shopping, drinking and food. I live near to Preston circus and the traffic today was horrendous . I don't think however we try and improve roads we just can not cope with that volume of traffic and the city is literally choking itself in car fumes. I have a young family and understand that trying to get somewhere using public transport is both a hassle and expensive. The problem is that after we are used to a type of lifestyle (i.e. freedom of cars, credit etc) if feels pretty rubbish to have it taken away but I can not see an alternative.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Where did I say that then? You seem to re-write my posts just as much as you re-write history on the Falklands thread. Out of interest, do you actually own a car or do you have a young family? I get the impression that you use buses because it suits you and your way of life hence your big downer on cars, or at least that is how it appears!

I live in the depths of the country - almost a mile from the nearest bus route (with a service that is five buses a day, none in the evenings or on Sunday). I do own a car. And I use the train (from a station three miles away) when I travel into Brighton (where I work and where I buy stuff and have the occasional evening or day out).

 

[Garage_Doors]

I don't think that Brighton particularly caters for the family seaside holiday market any more and so tourism would not be that badly hit. If you look at the large number of cars that come into Brighton at the weekend most will be young couples or groups of friends coming down for shopping, drinking and food. I live near to Preston circus and the traffic today was horrendous . I don't think however we try and improve roads we just can not cope with that volume of traffic and the city is literally choking itself in car fumes. I have a young family and understand that trying to get somewhere using public transport is both a hassle and expensive. The problem is that after we are used to a type of lifestyle (i.e. freedom of cars, credit etc) if feels pretty rubbish to have it taken away but I can not see an alternative.

All valid points with rational thinking.
But still feel as residents we are being given a very raw deal on bus pricing and don't like to be forced to use the councils biased chosen method of transport.
Buses would need to become more adaptable,frequent and reliable before I could consider them a viable option for every day travel.
As they ther are now i could not use them.