Ethnic Minorities and CCTV

[GT49er]

There'd be no need for these cameras if we weren't blowing up muslims in iraq and afghanistan.

There'd be no need for the cameras if muslims weren't blowing up innocent people on the underground - and plenty of other places.

Anyway, you're missing the point - cameras were up in lots of parts of Birmingham - they just want them removed FROM THE MUSLIM AREAS......no great protests from the other parts of the city, although I expect car thieves and muggers aren't too chuffed about them.

 

[Bakero]

CCTV is there to either discourage crime or help detect the culprits, if you're doing nothing wrong then where's the worry ? Of course if the crime rate goes up in the areas where the cameras are being banned from then so be it.

The Home Office's own research shows CCTV is not effective.
http://rds.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs05/hors292.pdf

(Summary here :http://www.privacyinternational.org/article.shtml?cmd[347]=x-347-167206)

Does it really not concern you that our government spies on its citizens? This displays an ignorance of history. Do you believe that the only people opposed to CCTV have something to hide?

Luckily, the cameras may be gone soon: Majority of UK's CCTV cameras 'are illegal' - Telegraph

 

[bhaexpress]

Sadly our judicial system is littered with miscarriages of justice so this tired statement does not really hold.

CCTV would rather lean towards protecting the innocent and prosecuting the guilty given that it's there to be seen rather than word of mouth so actually it does support what I said.

 

[bhaexpress]

Do you believe 9/11 was the beginning of history? Britain has a fair bit of history of 'blowing up' foreigners. The 'they started it' argument is infantile at best.

Middle Eastern Map of US and UK Government Interventions Since 1945

You may have noticed that as we're in the 21st century. Would you prefer to have Islam inflicted on you ? Going on about what happens centuries ago is rather infantile because if we all continued our grudges we'd all be at war with each other, start with Catholics and Protestants and then going on from there. You might accept Islamic terrorism but you'll be in a small minority.

 

[bhaexpress]

The Home Office's own research shows CCTV is not effective.
Does it really not concern you that our government spies on its citizens? This displays an ignorance of history. Do you believe that the only people opposed to CCTV have something to hide?

Sorry but I find paranoiacs like you rather stupid, why would the government be 'spying' on people walking down the street ? How do they benefit from that ? Please tell me as I find your ranting quite ridiculous.

How does the Government spy on us ? When and why does it do this ? Given the amount of personal data that's in the public domain I think that there's a lot more to worry about than CCTV.

 

[Pondicherry]

The Home Office develops CCTV for the police and their government spy sections in Horsham at Langhurst House. I believe they are trying to develop the technology that allows cameras to automatically detect a particular person. They can do this for cars already. They also have cameras that try to detect bombs left in an area by looking for objets that shouldn't be there and don't move.

 

[User removed 4]

They also have cameras that try to detect bombs left in an area by looking for objets that shouldn't be there and don't move.

Emile heskey ?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

CCTV would rather lean towards protecting the innocent and prosecuting the guilty given that it's there to be seen rather than word of mouth so actually it does support what I said.

It has been used to wrongly convict. Here is one of many many cases:

Jailed for a crime he didn't commit. Now he's a prisoner in his own home - Times Online


"The case went to trial — based on police officers’ identification evidence from CCTV footage — and he was convicted at the High Court in Glasgow on August 19, 2008."

Fresh DNA evidence became available at a later date and he was found innocent.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

CCTV would rather lean towards protecting the innocent and prosecuting the guilty given that it's there to be seen rather than word of mouth so actually it does support what I said.

..and one of the problems, apparently, with CCTV is the difficulty in arguing against it. There is an idea that the camera never lies. So it's not as fool proof as I think you believe it is.

 

[Bakero]

You may have noticed that as we're in the 21st century. Would you prefer to have Islam inflicted on you ? Going on about what happens centuries ago is rather infantile because if we all continued our grudges we'd all be at war with each other, start with Catholics and Protestants and then going on from there. You might accept Islamic terrorism but you'll be in a small minority.

I guess you mean 'You may have noticed that we're in the 21st century.' Yes, I do realise that. Do you consider the period from 1945 to the present tp be 'centuries ago'? The link I posted referred to events that occured soley within this period. Referring to the past does not seek to justify anything but you cannot understand the present without historical context.

I was responding to the post that suggested our invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan were justified by the events on 9/11. That poster was ostensibly implying that this created the conflict and he was seemingly oblivious to world history.

I do not accept Islamic terrorism. Neither do I accept illegal wars.

 

[bhaexpress]

I guess you mean 'You may have noticed that we're in the 21st century.' Yes, I do realise that. Do you consider the period from 1945 to the present tp be 'centuries ago'? The link I posted referred to events that occured soley within this period. Referring to the past does not seek to justify anything but you cannot understand the present without historical context.

I was responding to the post that suggested our invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan were justified by the events on 9/11. That poster was ostensibly implying that this created the conflict and he was seemingly oblivious to world history.

I do not accept Islamic terrorism. Neither do I accept illegal wars.

Care to answer my question about government spying or are we to accept you're full of shit ?

 

[Bakero]

Sorry but I find paranoiacs like you rather stupid, why would the government be 'spying' on people walking down the street ? How do they benefit from that ? Please tell me as I find your ranting quite ridiculous.

How does the Government spy on us ? When and why does it do this ? Given the amount of personal data that's in the public domain I think that there's a lot more to worry about than CCTV.

Sorry but I find people that obsequiously accept government decisions rather stupid. For hundreds of years people have fought for the liberties we now enjoy. Currently, these liberties are receding. The unthinking, unquestioning, silent consent of the majority is worrying.

You may not be being spied on now (I accept I may have been guilty of hyperbole)- but do you want the systems in place that would allow it? Are these systems justified? You seem to believe our Government is, was and always be a benign force. This isn't the case historically- why are you so confident about the future?

 

[bhaexpress]

Sorry but I find people that obsequiously accept government decisions rather stupid. For hundreds of years people have fought for the liberties we now enjoy. Currently, these liberties are receding. The unthinking, unquestioning, silent consent of the majority is worrying.

You may not be being spied on now (I accept I may have been guilty of hyperbole)- but do you want the systems in place that would allow it? Are these systems justified? You seem to believe our Government is, was and always be a benign force. This isn't the case historically- why are you so confident about the future?

I just find people that make sweeping statements without any suggestion of proof to be idiots, congratulations you're officially an idiot. I might add at what point have I said that I support all government actions ? I haven't but fools like you just like to make fiction fact. I suggest you crawl back under your rock where you'll still be just as delusional but you'll be safe from us and we'll be safe from you.

 

[Bakero]

I just find people that make sweeping statements without any suggestion of proof to be idiots, congratulations you're officially an idiot. I might add at what point have I said that I support all government actions ? I haven't but fools like you just like to make fiction fact. I suggest you crawl back under your rock where you'll still be just as delusional but you'll be safe from us and we'll be safe from you.

What 'sweeping statement' did I make? CCTV is a small part of a greater trend of erosion of our liberties. This is why I made reference to people accepting government decisions unquestioningly.

What exactly do you want me provide proof of? All I ask is that people think for themselves and don't sleepwalk through life. I'm not asserting that you do, so don't be offended. I don't know you; perhaps you're a deepthinking, well read, globally aware individual. The trouble is, your argument of 'you're an idiot' does little to portray this image.

 

[bhaexpress]

What 'sweeping statement' did I make? CCTV is a small part of a greater trend of erosion of our liberties. This is why I made reference to people accepting government decisions unquestioningly.

What exactly do you want me provide proof of? All I ask is that people think for themselves and don't sleepwalk through life. I'm not asserting that you do, so don't be offended. I don't know you; perhaps you're a deepthinking, well read, globally aware individual. The trouble is, your argument of 'you're an idiot' does little to portray this image.

I would like you to give some evidence of what you say rather than continue to make a fool of yourself by failing to do so. I'm not sleepwalking through life because unlike you I know bullshit when I see it.

 

[DJ Leon]

Sorry but I find people that obsequiously accept government decisions rather stupid. For hundreds of years people have fought for the liberties we now enjoy. Currently, these liberties are receding. The unthinking, unquestioning, silent consent of the majority is worrying.

You may not be being spied on now (I accept I may have been guilty of hyperbole)- but do you want the systems in place that would allow it? Are these systems justified? You seem to believe our Government is, was and always be a benign force. This isn't the case historically- why are you so confident about the future?

Perhaps the silent majority aren't as unthinking (and obviously 'stupid') as you think they are. Everyday I'm on a CCTV camera from pretty much the moment I leave my flat to the moment I get home. Am I worried? Not really, yes I have concerns for my privacy and future civil liberties, but I weigh this up against the benefits they bring in combatting crime (and the suggestion that they don't help do this is surely ludicrous).

Whilst not commenting directly on the story attached to this thread, I will say this - it's ironic that these events are unfolding as an inquiry into the 7/7 bombings continues to look at if they could have been avoided. Which way does society want to go with this?

 

[bhaexpress]

Perhaps the silent majority aren't as unthinking (and obviously 'stupid') as you think they are. Everyday I'm on a CCTV camera from pretty much the moment I leave my flat to the moment I get home. Am I worried? Not really, yes I have concerns for my privacy and future civil liberties, but I weigh this up against the benefits they bring in combatting crime (and the suggestion that they don't help do this is surely ludicrous).

Whilst not commenting directly on the story attached to this thread, I will say this - it's ironic that these events are unfolding as an inquiry into the 7/7 bombings continues to look at if they could have been avoided. Which way does society want to go with this?

He wants his civil rights protected and sod what anybody else wants. These tirades about the government spying on us must be down to food additives making people paranoid, of course that's just another government conspricey.

 

[Bakero]

Perhaps the silent majority aren't as unthinking (and obviously 'stupid') as you think they are. Everyday I'm on a CCTV camera from pretty much the moment I leave my flat to the moment I get home. Am I worried? Not really, yes I have concerns for my privacy and future civil liberties, but I weigh this up against the benefits they bring in combatting crime (and the suggestion that they don't help do this is surely ludicrous).

Whilst not commenting directly on the story attached to this thread, I will say this - it's ironic that these events are unfolding as an inquiry into the 7/7 bombings continues to look at if they could have been avoided. Which way does society want to go with this?

Hi. I do not believe the silent majority are stupid. I do believe that society as a whole is too passive. I feel in all aspects of life people should question what they are told. BHAExpress suggests this is a sign of paranoia- I guess ignorance is bliss.

You may have missed my post earlier re. the efficacy of CCTV. The Home Office's own research shows CCTV is not effective.
http://rds.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs05/hors292.pdf

(Summary here :http://www.privacyinternational.org/article.shtml?cmd[347]=x-347-167206)

I have had two personal experiences of CCTV in the last 2 years. Once, my brother's jaw was broken but the camera was facing the wrong way so no action was taken. The second incident, the police responded to a disturbance outside a pub that was reported by a CCTV operator. The operator informed them of the circumstances and a description of those involved. The police arrived and pepper sprayed my friend who had just arrived and was not involved. CCTV effective?

 

[Bakero]

I would like you to give some evidence of what you say rather than continue to make a fool of yourself by failing to do so. I'm not sleepwalking through life because unlike you I know bullshit when I see it.

You're a very frustrating person to debate with because you're quick to post but don't say anything. Specifically, what do you want evidence of? Don't just say 'evidence of what you say'. Be specific. I'll happily endeavour to provide proof of any facts I've stated.

One question for you though. Do you fundamentally disagree with my argument that individuals should question the information they receive? You seem to be passionate in your demand for evidence so would appear to agree with me.

 

[bhaexpress]

You're a very frustrating person to debate with because you're quick to post but don't say anything. Specifically, what do you want evidence of? Don't just say 'evidence of what you say'. Be specific. I'll happily endeavour to provide proof of any facts I've stated.

One question for you though. Do you fundamentally disagree with my argument that individuals should question the information they receive? You seem to be passionate in your demand for evidence so would appear to agree with me.

I don't say anything ? Well where is your proof of the government spying ? Give an example instead of bullshitting. The more you procrastinate the bigger fool you look. To make accusations without any justification is ridiculous but as we have already established you're an idiot I doubt that you can grasp this simple fact. Then of course I doubt that the concept of 'fact' is within your grasp.