[Albion] Enciso -keep, sell or loan?

[AlbionBro]

He has been s a young man starved of match football seeing many of our others fail to shoot or score. One way or another I have no blame with blondie.

 

[Rdodge30]

I'd be stunned if his goal ratio doesn't improve a lot as he matures and gets experience at the top level. Harry Kane hadn't started a game for Spurs and Ian Wright and Jamie Vardy weren't even professional footballers at his age and they simply played how they played.

Fair point comparing his attitude to JPs though.

Yes his goal ratio probably will improve thinking about it- I was shocked to see how bad it was , so you’re right it can’t be worse!!

 

[Bodian]

So he takes the highest number of shots and scores the least amount of goals because he thinks he is better than all his team mates?

Agree that is likely the case.

The simple fact is that when he passed to his team mates, they did bugger all with it.

 

[Han Solo]

The simple fact is that when he passed to his team mates, they did bugger all with it.

And when his team mates put him in 8 opportunities to score a goal, what did he do that was so much better than his team mates? What made you and Enciso think that Enciso is too good to pass his team mates after they had given him 8 chances to f*** up? Did he score?

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

In fairness, for much of December, it has looked extremely likely that Enciso would be loaned out in January. He's been linked with a fair few clubs, and clearly wanted more match minutes.

But he's been given a start and didn't perform badly - depending on your view of whether shooting a lot is a god thing or not - so loaning him out now looks less obvious than it did.

The quality of his chances was much better last night than it’s been historically though. That’s a positive thing, I’d say. It suggests he’s waiting for better opportunities to attack.

 

[NorthstandRacoon]

He was a total embarassmnt yesterday and should have been off at half time. Complete mystry how Mitoma was taken off and he stayed on

Delusional idiot.

 

[Bodian]

And when his team mates put him in 8 opportunities to score a goal, what did he do that was so much better than his team mates? What made you and Enciso think that Enciso is too good to pass his team mates after they had given him 8 chances to f*** up? Did he score?

I'm not saying he was better than the others. But your blanket insistence that players must not shoot from distance or when they get a sight of goal seems rather odd to be honest. I'm really not sure what it is you're suggesting. If he shoots you don't like it, if he passes, it comes to nothing.

What is it exactly you are wanting?

Or do you just have an irrational downer on Enciso rather than on shooting?

 

[WATFORD zero]

And when his team mates put him in 8 opportunities to score a goal, what did he do that was so much better than his team mates? What made you and Enciso think that Enciso is too good to pass his team mates after they had given him 8 chances to f*** up? Did he score?

Well you certainly didn't see what I saw last night, so I'll try and find what they showed on TV so that at least I can see what you saw

 

[Han Solo]

I'm not saying he was better than the others. But your blanket insistence that players must not shoot from distance or when they get a sight of goal seems rather odd to be honest. I'm really not sure what it is you're suggesting. If he shoots you don't like it, if he passes, it comes to nothing.

What is it exactly you are wanting?

Or do you just have an irrational downer on Enciso rather than on shooting?

Its not odd.

This is what the world of data says: if you pass the ball to someone in the penalty box, you have a better chance of scoring than if you shoot from 35 meters.
Of course, the odd long shot is a nice surprise and makes sure your opponent can't read you. But if you "shoot on sight" 5-6-7 times per game, it results in wasting ~10 minutes of time and giving over possession.

I'm going to tell you what is odd: that you think a professional footballer should avoid passing the ball. The opposite is not odd.

What I want?

Well, maybe that Julio Enciso would have listened to Roberto De Zerbi and stopped shooting from all kinds of angles and distances. Or that he could listen to the extremely frustrated people of Paraguay who is sick and tired of it. Or that he himself could have realised "this is not the perfect thing to do all the time, I need to get better and smarter, because I am the least efficient player in all of the European top leagues".

And then taking it from there. Bit like how Ali Mac and Tross got the advice to bulk up and did so instead of thinking "no I'm perfect the way I am and everyone else is shit and I'm not passing them the ball".

What I want for Julio Enciso is to go on a loan where people like you and @Flounce don't exist. Maybe a bottom team in Spain where they can't afford to sit and wank over a 100 missed shots, 0 goals and 0 assists. People there would tell him "its not working, do different" instead of "don't pass your team mates, just keep missing everything because it gets my arse of my seat".

And if no such loan is to be found, I want him to be sold and replaced by a player who doesn't think he is Gods gift to mankind and instead wants to work hard and cleverly to become better.

 

[Han Solo]

Well you certainly didn't see what I saw last night, so I'll try and find what they showed on TV so that at least I can see what you saw

What do you mean? You didn't see the eight shots?

 

[Bodian]

Its not odd.

This is what the world of data says: if you pass the ball to someone in the penalty box, you have a better chance of scoring than if you shoot from 35 meters.
Of course, the odd long shot is a nice surprise and makes sure your opponent can't read you. But if you "shoot on sight" 5-6-7 times per game, it results in wasting ~10 minutes of time and giving over possession.

But we have spent quite a few games passing the ball to someone in the penalty box - and it has not got us very far. We keep over-passing, and not scoring. So - whilst statistically we may have a better chance of scoring - it's not actually happening.

I'm going to tell you what is odd: that you think a professional footballer should avoid passing the ball. The opposite is not odd.

That's not what I said - if you read my posts I have said that he did indeed pass quite a bit, but then it came to nothing.

What I want?

Well, maybe that Julio Enciso would have listened to Roberto De Zerbi and stopped shooting from all kinds of angles and distances.

Again - I think he has. He wasn't just randomly shooting from everywhere last night. When he shot, it was generally the best thing to do in that particular situation, and if the shot wasn't on - he passed. A much more mature performance than some of his earlier games when he did indeed just shoot all the time. But neither option worked out.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Or that he could listen to the extremely frustrated people of Paraguay who is sick and tired of it.

Well now we've been told by the spokesman for the Paraguayan Football supporters association

Sit down, have a little smoke, relax and have something to eat, or double down. I'm easily entertained by either

 

[Bodian]

What do you mean? You didn't see the eight shots?

Which shots should he have not taken? The one that hit the post, the header? Presumably you're happy with those (except they didn't end up in a goal).

 

[Han Solo]

But we have spent quite a few games passing the ball to someone in the penalty box - and it has not got us very far. We keep over-passing, and not scoring. So - whilst statistically we may have a better chance of scoring - it's not actually happening.

That's not what I said - if you read my posts I have said that he did indeed pass quite a bit, but then it came to nothing.

Again - I think he has. He wasn't just randomly shooting from everywhere last night. When he shot, it was generally the best thing to do in that particular situation, and if the shot wasn't on - he passed. A much more mature performance than some of his earlier games when he did indeed just shoot all the time. But neither option worked out.

Ok.
So we don't score from passing the ball into the penalty box, so we should scrap that and go all hail mary. I get it.
Then the natural follow up question is: did it work? Can you point out to me when we scored fewer goals than yesterday?

 

[Bodian]

Ok.
So we don't score from passing the ball into the penalty box, so we should scrap that and go all hail mary. I get it.
Then the natural follow up question is: did it work? Can you point out to me when we scored fewer goals than yesterday?

It's not a binary thing is it. We can have both shots and passes! It's just we're not scoring from either.

 

[WATFORD zero]

What do you mean? You didn't see the eight shots?

I certainly didn't see

And when his team mates put him in 8 opportunities to score a goal, what did he do that was so much better than his team mates? What made you and Enciso think that Enciso is too good to pass his team mates after they had given him 8 chances to f*** up? Did he score?

I saw his team mates set him up some 'opportunities', him make some 'opportunities' for himself and him make some 'opportunities for his team mates, a bit like a team of people do. But you do seem hung up on binary

 

[Flounce]

Its not odd.

This is what the world of data says: if you pass the ball to someone in the penalty box, you have a better chance of scoring than if you shoot from 35 meters.
Of course, the odd long shot is a nice surprise and makes sure your opponent can't read you. But if you "shoot on sight" 5-6-7 times per game, it results in wasting ~10 minutes of time and giving over possession.

I'm going to tell you what is odd: that you think a professional footballer should avoid passing the ball. The opposite is not odd.

What I want?

Well, maybe that Julio Enciso would have listened to Roberto De Zerbi and stopped shooting from all kinds of angles and distances. Or that he could listen to the extremely frustrated people of Paraguay who is sick and tired of it. Or that he himself could have realised "this is not the perfect thing to do all the time, I need to get better and smarter, because I am the least efficient player in all of the European top leagues".

And then taking it from there. Bit like how Ali Mac and Tross got the advice to bulk up and did so instead of thinking "no I'm perfect the way I am and everyone else is shit and I'm not passing them the ball".

What I want for Julio Enciso is to go on a loan where people like you and @Flounce don't exist. Maybe a bottom team in Spain where they can't afford to sit and wank over a 100 missed shots, 0 goals and 0 assists. People there would tell him "its not working, do different" instead of "don't pass your team mates, just keep missing everything because it gets my arse of my seat".

And if no such loan is to be found, I want him to be sold and replaced by a player who doesn't think he is Gods gift to mankind and instead wants to work hard and cleverly to become better.

I’ll carry on wanking over whatever takes my fancy and hope our manager continues to have faith because I love watching Albion footballers who can do this. I have followed us for years, love how we’ve grown and not just hopped from one team to another depending on how good they are or who the manager is, but carry on

 

[Han Solo]

Which shots should he have not taken? The one that hit the post, the header? Presumably you're happy with those (except they didn't end up in a goal).

Mainly the last two ones when whatever "learning" he had done was out the window again.

Being off balance, shooting a volley with his left foot just outside the box, with the box full of players. Did it go 15 meters wide? 20?

Last one, Pervis (?) has the ball, crowd yells "shoot" but Pervis thinks its not a great idea given the long distance and that players have made runs into the box. Passes the ball to Julio Enciso who takes a shot from very long range into the hands of the keeper.

Two dumb shots; not the worst in the world, no? If it doesn't happen every time for years, in which case it becomes a real problem.

However, I could have seen it as a step forward. Absolutely. But when you then look at the crosses he made, there wasn't one instance where he didn't first seek the angle of a shot, and upon realising there wasnt any just crossed it too late and too bad to a defence/gk that had reorganised itself. Giving the ball to a team mate is the last resort for Enciso.

He'll wake up this morning angry and frustrated... about not shooting more.

I'm tired of him and the other egomaniac (JP) and imho they become team players or we're a lot better of without them, their body language, their missed chances, their dribbling, their social media antics, pretty much the whole f***ing "I'm Maradona" thang coming from one mediocre PL player (Enciso) and one who is good but hardly irreplacable (JP).

 

[Uh_huh_him]

For the record, being a Swede, Ayari should have scored both yesterday and the game before. I like him, he’s done some progress the last six months or so, but you can’t miss shots like that. And it has nothing to do with tactics and it’s not FH’s fault either.

You really can miss chances like that, it happens all the time.
I suspect the xg on that chance was less than 0.2, meaning these chances are put away 1 in 5 times.

Our total xg from the game was 1.56
Scoring goals is a lot harder than most of us think.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Giving the ball to a team mate is the last resort for Enciso.

I'm assuming you've never watched Kane, Lineker, Shearer, Ronaldo, Owen, Lewandowski, Suarez, Muller, Greaves (I could go on and on)

Greedy bastards to a man

(And before you say it, they were all greedy bastards at 20, before they became good)