[Politics] Dominic Cummings v H&SC and S&T select committees *Official Match Thread*

[KZNSeagull]

Any leader anywhere should be having difficult conversations like these being reported this morning with his advisers and colleagues, that's what leaders are paid to do. The only thing that can be made to stick is if it can be proved that Boris' policy has always been "let the over 80's die", but Cummins is very good at making allegations and soundbites, he is less good at coming up with proof. Plus the fact that we have been in lockdown for months suggests that this is not actually his policy at all.

And as for the Cummins saved the Queen's life business, basically Boris said he wanted to go and see the Queen regularly, Cummins pointed out that this was not a good idea as he may give the Queen Covid (ie giving the PM advice as per his job), to which Boris agreed that this was not a good idea. Not newsworthy if you ask me, but there you go. Just shows that Boris is an arse but we knew that already anyway.

 

[nicko31]

I suspect Boris has got to tread very carefully here - it wouldn't surprise me if Cummings recorded some if not all of his conversations with BJ in which case he (Boris) would be ill-advised to absolutely deny any of it.

To Cummins the whole thing is a soap opera, drip, drip, drip....

We've still got some way to go before Boris battled the experts to save Christmas

 

[Machiavelli]

I suspect Boris has got to tread very carefully here - it wouldn't surprise me if Cummings recorded some if not all of his conversations with BJ in which case he (Boris) would be ill-advised to absolutely deny any of it.

He'd be creating more problems in denying it outright, as DC has shown LK messages sent by BJ. They'll ignore it, and try to undermine DC's credibility, which some on here are also doing. On this, I'm no fan of DC and accept the fact that he's lied and has been very effective in several odious political projects, but none of that means that everything he says is a lie.
Most of us have lied at some points in our lives, which doesn't detract from the fact that most of what we say accords with (what we regard to be) the truth.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

He'd be creating more problems in denying it outright, as DC has shown LK messages sent by BJ. They'll ignore it, and try to undermine DC's credibility, which some on here are also doing. On this, I'm no fan of DC and accept the fact that he's lied and has been very effective in several odious political projects, but none of that means that everything he says is a lie.
Most of us have lied at some points in our lives, which doesn't detract from the fact that most of what we say accords with (what we regard to be) the truth.

Setting aside the issues for a moment, there is a problem with the logic. You seem to be saying that when DC was involved in stuff with which you disagree then he was lying. Now he is saying something that you agree with, then he is telling the truth. I don’t know who to believe but I find the co-incidence around your stance a little difficult. Not you in particular by the way, yours is the post I happened to have responded to. For my part I am going to believe for definite the parts where Boris condemns himself ie in the WhatsApp messages.

 

[bluenitsuj]

Funny so many people hanging on Cummings every word yet only a few months ago he was an irrelevant advisor who should be ignored.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Dominic Cummings v H&SC and S&T select committees *Official Match Thread*

Funny so many people hanging on Cummings every word yet only a few months ago he was an irrelevant advisor who should be ignored.

Funny so many people who were hanging on Cummings every word when he had power and influence (especially his brilliantly effective propaganda) are the same ones now throwing this ‘whataboutary’ argument around in a vain attempt to turn the narrative away from Cummings accusations.

In essence, the vast majority of this board had Boris worked out prior to the last election and the Cummings revelations are about as surprising as the news that the Pope is indeed catholic.

Nothing to apologise for, however, that can’t be said of those who voted this shit show into government…….

 

[A1X]

I don't think anyone is "hanging on his every word", what he is saying is tallying up with what we all saw happening last year (delays in lockdown, confused messaging etc.). He's a shit and a charlatan and I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him, but it's hard to argue what he is saying is not tallying up with the evidence of our own eyes from this pandemic.

 

[Oscar]

Boris continues to pay the price for not sacking and disgracing this guy when he had the chance. He'll be hanging around like a bad smell all the time this lot are in power. That said, nothing Cummins says is going to change my view of Boris... a blithering idiot, a completely useless leader.

 

[studio150]

He'd be creating more problems in denying it outright,

Johnson - I don't recognise those words, it 's not what the public want, they want us to continue getting back to normal and building back better. The time to examine any detail is in the public enquiry which we will do once we are over covid. I consider the matter closed,

or words to similar to the above.

 

[Nobby Nomates]

I heard a comedian say recently that it was like one of those ancient riddles: "One of these men can only lie; the other can only lie. Which of them is telling the truth?"

 

[MJsGhost]

Johnson - I don't recognise those words, it 's not what the public want, they want us to continue getting back to normal and building back better. The time to examine any detail is in the public enquiry which we will do once we are over covid. I consider the matter closed,

or words to similar to the above.

You forgot he'd crowbar the vaccine rollout in there too

 

[WATFORD zero]

Setting aside the issues for a moment, there is a problem with the logic. You seem to be saying that when DC was involved in stuff with which you disagree then he was lying. Now he is saying something that you agree with, then he is telling the truth. I don’t know who to believe but I find the co-incidence around your stance a little difficult. Not you in particular by the way, yours is the post I happened to have responded to. For my part I am going to believe for definite the parts where Boris condemns himself ie in the WhatsApp messages.

But it isn't anything to do with 'trusting' or 'not trusting' Cummings.

We all saw what was happening at the time.
Cummings, who I don't believe anyone would try to deny, was party to all that information, those discussions and decisions.
What he has been saying since does seem to be feasible explanations of what was happening based on what we knew at the time (other explanations are available).
Johnson has flatly refused to deny those explanations.
Cummings has supplied further supporting evidence.
Other Facts later 'emerged' (Johnson's flat was paid for by donors, Hancock promising Care home testing when it was unfeasible etc etc)

You must be able to see why people may make what appears a logical conclusion based on the above.

Completely regardless of their view of Cummings

 

[sydney]

"build back better" , " once we are over covid"....****sake , ****sake and ****sake again....he's been put there to do a job and he's doing it very well.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

But it isn't anything to do with 'trusting' or 'not trusting' Cummings.

We all saw what was happening at the time.
Cummings, who I don't believe anyone would try to deny, was party to all that information, those discussions and decisions.
What he has been saying since does seem to be feasible explanations of what was happening based on what we knew at the time (other explanations are available).
Johnson has flatly refused to deny those allegations.
Cummings has supplied further supporting evidence.
Other Facts later 'emerged' (Johnson's flat was paid for by donors, Hancock promising Care home testing when it was unfeasible etc etc)

You must be able to see why people may make what appears a logical conclusion based on the above.

Completely regardless of their view of Cummings

Of course, although I am also conscious of being played by a master of the dark arts. Cummings clearly has an agenda (self promotion)and will spin accordingly. I’m not sure he has actually come up with many facts and when challenged on this by Laura Kuenssberg he simply said others heard what he heard. The Government has undoubtedly made mistakes but so has that of every other country. Personally, I am inclined to cut them some slack for the mistakes of last year given the shock of entering a pandemic. I am not so inclined to do so this Summer.
I would hope that what comes out of this is a template of decision making that future leaders can use when entering a pandemic. I am less interested in the usual blame game.

 

[nicko31]

Funny so many people hanging on Cummings every word yet only a few months ago he was an irrelevant advisor who should be ignored.

Cummings was the architect of Vote Leave, I don't think anyone is hanging on every word.

 

[vegster]

I suspect Boris has got to tread very carefully here - it wouldn't surprise me if Cummings recorded some if not all of his conversations with BJ in which case he (Boris) would be ill-advised to absolutely deny any of it.

He already is treading very lightly! Several of his replies in PMQ 's and the various interviews with parliamentary committees have involved very vague denials with the caveat of " I don't recall those events like that at the time ".. Trouble is, we all know he is a lying heap of selfish crap but we are stuck with him.

Additionally there are very very few alternatives in the Parliamentary Tory Party who have the ability and a clean enough backstory to do the job. All half way decent ministers were purged as they would be a threat to the idiot at the top.

 

[dejavuatbtn]

I’m saddened by the bbc giving this idiot so much airtime to fuel his vendetta. Shame they can’t focus more on Johnson and his reluctance to become even more unpopular by refusing to make face masks mandatory.

 

[pb21]

But it isn't anything to do with 'trusting' or 'not trusting' Cummings.

We all saw what was happening at the time.
Cummings, who I don't believe anyone would try to deny, was party to all that information, those discussions and decisions.
What he has been saying since does seem to be feasible explanations of what was happening based on what we knew at the time (other explanations are available).
Johnson has flatly refused to deny those explanations.
Cummings has supplied further supporting evidence.
Other Facts later 'emerged' (Johnson's flat was paid for by donors, Hancock promising Care home testing when it was unfeasible etc etc)

You must be able to see why people may make what appears a logical conclusion based on the above.

Completely regardless of their view of Cummings

Absolutely.

I didn't believe Cummings last year when he said he went for a drive with his children to test his eyesight, because I'm not stupid.

However, I do tend to believe his account of how things played out more generally, because my eyes do work, and, as above, I'm not stupid.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Funny so many people hanging on Cummings every word yet only a few months ago he was an irrelevant advisor who should be ignored.

Cummings was never ignored, he was clearly the guy driving policy, he is responsible for brexit, arguably running the country. I don't think anyone ignored him or if they did they were mistaken. Some people are trying to ignore him now but considering everything he is saying was coming from the time he held this power, ignoring him is more akin to sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming.

 

[amexer]

Of course in hindsight mistakes were made and I am sure with Cummings knowledge and acceptance. So easy for those not responsible to say we should have done this or that and perhaps close down the country. Facts are it was only those in power who had to think of economy in the future and make sure there was something to go back to. Dont you worry if government had taken an earlier and harder line Cummings would still be up there today but with an opposite view.