[Politics] Dominic Cummings v H&SC and S&T select committees *Official Match Thread*

[rippleman]

A leader like Starmer is what this country needs but unfortunately the press don't like him because he doesn't generate juicy stories.

I dunno. Forcing your way into a pub against the wishes of the licensee was pretty attention seeking ....and blatantly stupid. Showed himself to be petty and arrogant.

As a lifelong Labour voter I'm still just about clinging on voting for Labour candidates in elections. But that is despite him. Not because of him.

 

[clapham_gull]

I dunno. Forcing your way into a pub against the wishes of the licensee was pretty attention seeking ....and blatantly stupid. Showed himself to be petty and arrogant.

As a lifelong Labour voter I'm still just about clinging on voting for Labour candidates in elections. But that is despite him. Not because of him.

Er, he was invited to the pub. It was a pre-arranged visit. It was only when he entered that one of the owners started an anti-lockdown rant.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

Of course no-one on earth knows whether any political decision will be a success or failure.

I think a stay on the coastal path or jump off the cliff political decision has discernible probabilities. Outcomes were not flip of a coin.

 

[Machiavelli]

Cummings is a disrupter though. That is his genius. I’m not sure he thinks through the consequences of his actions, he just does the job in hand. I’d liken him to a genius Army general, perhaps one of the strategists who mastered minded the invasion of Iraq. It is not their job to think about what will happen after the invasion and not even to think why there is an actual invasion, they are there to make the invasion successful.

Cummings is a genius in this respect because he has led the Country into making two decisions through his ‘leave campaign’ and then his ‘Johnson - get Brexit done campaign’. The latter is obviously catastrophic for the Country and whilst the former is still being adjudicated on, it makes sense for him to say that he is not 100% sure it’s a good idea because he made the event happen with a desire to disrupt, not a desire for the best outcome.

Agree about Cummings as disrupter and genius.
Disagree about the analogy with the army general invading Iraq: the neocons (including those in the army) were convinced that with the removal of Saddam, the introduction of neoliberal economics (including US involvement) and representative democracy, all would turn out fine and dandy in Iraq. Hmmm...

 

[Icy Gull]

Cummings is a disrupter though. That is his genius. I’m not sure he thinks through the consequences of his actions, he just does the job in hand. I’d liken him to a genius Army general, perhaps one of the strategists who mastered minded the invasion of Iraq. It is not their job to think about what will happen after the invasion and not even to think why there is an actual invasion, they are there to make the invasion successful.

Cummings is a genius in this respect because he has led the Country into making two decisions through his ‘leave campaign’ and then his ‘Johnson - get Brexit done campaign’. The latter is obviously catastrophic for the Country and whilst the former is still being adjudicated on, it makes sense for him to say that he is not 100% sure it’s a good idea because he made the event happen with a desire to disrupt, not a desire for the best outcome.

Wow, I am so fecking naive, that is scary stuff

 

[Machiavelli]

I think a stay on the coastal path or jump off the cliff political decision has discernible probabilities. Outcomes were not flip of a coin.

Lovely analogy, but we were sold multiple modes of suicide by Leave, not just one. They even managed to claim that suicide was positive, and all would turn out for the better.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I think a stay on the coastal path or jump off the cliff political decision has discernible probabilities. Outcomes were not flip of a coin.

Bit of an extreme analogy given the lack of dramatic outcome from leaving. It also implies we should always stay with the status quo. If we took that approach to decision making how would we have joined the Common Market in the 1970s ?

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

Bit of an extreme analogy given the lack of dramatic outcome from leaving. It also implies we should always stay with the status quo. If we took that approach to decision making how would we have joined the Common Market in the 1970s ?

It was always ever going to be a slow managed decline - as we are witnessing. The jump off the cliff is not really extreme - if you prefer take it that we wandered off the coastal path near the cliffs with a blindfold.

The difference in the 1970's was there was a plan and known advantages that benefitted our country. An informed choice could be made. Advertised benefits could be measured. Leaving would not have been a problem had there been a plan and known advantages that benefitted our country. But imagine being five years in and the government negotiator is not able to name an actual benefit (ignore any made-up ones).

 

[Mellotron]

But 5 years ago, Cummings was inside the team so what answers do you think he or anyone else would have given?

Absolutely, but that's not my point. My point is a proper journalist holds people in power's feet to the fire when it matters, not years later asking questions any of us could've easily asked, once they're completely moot. Cowardly stuff from her.

What I'd give for Paxman to be in that chair.

 

[drew]

Absolutely, but that's not my point. My point is a proper journalist holds people in power's feet to the fire when it matters, not years later asking questions any of us could've easily asked, once they're completely moot. Cowardly stuff from her.

What I'd give for Paxman to be in that chair.

I know what you're saying but Paxman would still not have got any answers!

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Bit of an extreme analogy given the lack of dramatic outcome from leaving. It also implies we should always stay with the status quo. If we took that approach to decision making how would we have joined the Common Market in the 1970s ?

Strange state of affairs when a country decides to change from being a member of a supranational union to a status enjoyed by most countries in the world is described as 'jumping off a cliff'.

Getting back to the topic on this thread, with the exception of the Barnard castle road trip all these Cummings related revelations have had little or no impact on the overall political weather, same goes for the BLM Pritti Patel England players OUTRAGE or the Boris not immediately isolating like one of us DEBACLE. Dozens of breathless articles, hundreds of angry posts, thousands of hysterical tweets yet nothing really changes ... makes you wonder why anyone bothers.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

That sums it up perfectly and is how two people can passionately debate an issue and yet be able to see it from the other’s perspective. The Brexit debate turned sour because too many were unable to countenance their own uncertainty nor recognize that others may start from a different place. I really think that is the point DC is making although I am beginning to feel like an art critic trying to read too much into a painting !

Lovely brushwork

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Lovely analogy, but we were sold multiple modes of suicide by Leave, not just one. They even managed to claim that suicide was positive, and all would turn out for the better.

Resurrection. It worked for Jesus, so....

 

[Doonhamer7]

Just watched the interview, what an interesting character. Compared to most our MPs at least I felt he was actually answering the questions rather than avoid. I feel that the man has a touch of the genius about him, most definitely a disrupter (and there are far too few of them) but not sure if he has the full EQ to go with his IQ. Some really honest statements about no country should have to chose between Johnson or Corbet. Honest that he doesn’t know whether brexit will be a success. A bit machevelian on thoughts on removing Johnson after he won general election - was this a coup or a real care for the UK? Definely not a narcissist as I don’t think he cares what any of us think about him. Now confused as i Do t know if I like him more or not - but would love to spend a couple of hours chatting with him

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

Strange state of affairs when a country decides to change from being a member of a supranational union to a status enjoyed by most countries in the world is described as 'jumping off a cliff'.

Not that strange when a country decides to leave a trading bloc with no idea of the subsequent trade terms and uncertain how and from where that trade will be replaced.

 

[Nitram]

I am the only one seeing a power mad charlatan, who thinks he’s the second coming but comes across as a woman scorned. If he’s such a genius stop hiding behind other people playing a kingmaker and put your self up for elected office. Odious slimeball although that’s probably what attracted Boris and his cronies to him.

 

[amexer]

Just watched the interview, what an interesting character. Compared to most our MPs at least I felt he was actually answering the questions rather than avoid. I feel that the man has a touch of the genius about him, most definitely a disrupter (and there are far too few of them) but not sure if he has the full EQ to go with his IQ. Some really honest statements about no country should have to chose between Johnson or Corbet. Honest that he doesn’t know whether brexit will be a success. A bit machevelian on thoughts on removing Johnson after he won general election - was this a coup or a real care for the UK? Definely not a narcissist as I don’t think he cares what any of us think about him. Now confused as i Do t know if I like him more or not - but would love to spend a couple of hours chatting with him

Yes a clever man. Although not elected without doubt very much part of decision making. As it didnt work out for him he now comes across as, he was for anything that went well and was against anything that didnt..Comes over that he is a man of principle yet he carried on working with these terrible people until he was sacked. Would like to see him join one of political parties and become an MP. but assume not for him as he would be accountable for decisions made if he became a minister

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Not that strange when a country decides to leave a trading bloc with no idea of the subsequent trade terms and uncertain how and from where that trade will be replaced.

Err ... we weren't allowed to negotiate our own deals with third countries until we left and the EU insisted they wouldn't talk about a future trading relationship until we triggered article 50 and settled all our supposed outstanding financial commitments first. So your leaving threshold could never be met under any circumstances...

 

[WATFORD zero]

Err ... we weren't allowed to negotiate our own deals with third countries until we left and the EU insisted they wouldn't talk about a future trading relationship until we triggered article 50 and settled all our supposed outstanding financial commitments first. So your leaving threshold could never be met under any circumstances...

So what brilliant trade deals have we actually signed off (not outlined, in principle etc, etc ) that weren't rollovers of the EU deals in the 4.5 years since we triggered Article 50

 

[Machiavelli]

So what brilliant trade deals have we actually signed off (not outlined, in principle etc, etc ) that weren't rollovers of the EU deals in the 4.5 years since we triggered Article 50

...