Devolution Referendum

[BadFish]

Lets be clear on this , any of what you have mentioned above is really only a response by the english to years and years of snide comments and hostility from the scots which has only increased since the film braveheart was released, i can remember being pretty much as supportive of scotland in the 1974 world cup as i would have been england, not any more , i refuse to be the sort of prat who gives a polite titter in response to some jock cvnt joyfully telling me how much he likes seeing us get beaten/supports anyone who plays us etc etc , the same goes for the welsh who hate us as much , if not more than the scots.

Of the many many Socts I have met, I have never, never met one who hates the English. Bit of banter yes, bit of pisstaking yes. but the hatred you describe never. Last time I was in Scotland, strangers were buying me drinks because I had driven all the way from Brighton. Fantastic bunch of people in my experience.

I do concede that maybe their are some Scots that hate the English, but i suspect they just struggle to let go of the past and love to keep up the pathetic rivalry between the two countries. To be honest them and you, and others like you, can keep hating each other till the day you die for all I care. I will continue to take people as i find them regardless of where they happened t be born and/or brought up because it doesn't make any difference to me.

 

[sten_super]

i refuse to be the sort of prat who gives a polite titter in response to some jock cvnt joyfully telling me how much he likes seeing us get beaten/supports anyone who plays us etc etc , the same goes for the welsh who hate us as much , if not more than the scots.

That is pretty much my standard response - what's the point in getting uptight and aggressive about it? I couldn't give a flying one about the Scottish football/rugby team - just because some jocko hates my team I'm supposed to care about them?

 

[piersa]

There are not enough stupid scots to ever let this happen. I will have a healthy bet with anyone, that the outcome will be no.

 

[BadFish]

 

[Diego Napier]

I am to far away to really know, but is it really going to make much difference to your average Englishman? Apart from making it easier for the Tories to get into Westminster which I would argue is a terrible thing for everyone (to be fair it would only be a bit more terrible than a Labour government. Hobson's choice and all)

All I am really reading on this thread is "hooray, we can get rid of the sweaties"

May I ask what has changed your mind about nationalism? (pm me if you like to avoid the binfest)

I think there has been a gradual change in English perspective over the years.

When I was young, it seemed natural to support Scotland (or Wales) on the international sporting stage. However, as time's gone by, it's become very apparent that most Scots never reciprocate, instead always ardently supporting any country that England plays, hoping to see us lose. I suppose for me it's become a case of "you can only take so much shit".

Economically, we've been subsidising the Scots for years. You could bring North Sea oil into the equation but that would be balanced by the large financial incentives provided for international companies to locate in "Silicon Glen" and political pressure on others to remain in Scotland. We certainly subsidise their Healthcare and University placements, don't have a voice in their Parliament and yet allow them a say in Westminster.

Last and not least, if we were separated then we could change the clocks to have longer summer evenings without the Scots bleating on about dark mornings!

All in all, if they are so keen to live in the past with Braveheart & Bannockburn then fair enough, off you go you ungrateful buggers!

 

[BadFish]

I think there has been a gradual change in English perspective over the years.

When I was young, it seemed natural to support Scotland (or Wales) on the international sporting stage. However, as time's gone by, it's become very apparent that most Scots never reciprocate, instead always ardently supporting any country that England plays, hoping to see us lose. I suppose for me it's become a case of "you can only take so much shit".

Economically, we've been subsidising the Scots for years. You could bring North Sea oil into the equation but that would be balanced by the large financial incentives provided for international companies to locate in "Silicon Glen" and political pressure on others to remain in Scotland. We certainly subsidise their Healthcare and University placements, don't have a voice in their Parliament and yet allow them a say in Westminster.

Last and not least, if we were separated then we could change the clocks to have longer summer evenings without the Scots bleating on about dark mornings!

All in all, if they are so keen to live in the past with Braveheart & Bannockburn then fair enough, off you go you ungrateful buggers!

The most English comment I have heard in a very long time and one that explains why as a nation we are disliked the world over.

 

[The Spanish]

The most English comment I have heard in a very long time and one that explains why as a nation we are disliked the world over.

good job you are getting on so well with everyone to undo the damage the rest of us do.

 

[BadFish]

good job you are getting on so well with everyone to undo the damage the rest of us do.

True, and thanks for the recognition.

 

[maltaseagull]

I guess you mean cameron (although the same could apply to Salmond). Cameron is a lightweight tory rich boy, surrounded by lightweight tory rich boys. Leader of the the Conservative and Unionist party??

Not relevant to this thread - start another one!

 

[Diego Napier]

The most English comment I have heard in a very long time and one that explains why as a nation we are disliked the world over.

Thank you, I'll take that as a compliment

 

[Lethargic]

The irony is that I believe a Scottish only vote will result in a No but a UK vote would result in a Yes which would be very embarrassing for Salmon, the man reminds me very much of Scargill very little interest in the people he "represents" totally on a personal agenda he wants to go down in history as the man to end 500 years of English tyranny.
The whole economic situation is a minefield and it will probably end in tears personally I couldn't care less on a individual basis things will not change much for us but I am not sure that is the case for the sweaties.

 

[piersa]

The most English comment I have heard in a very long time and one that explains why as a nation we are disliked the world over.

In general, it is good to be disliked by some people, it means you have stood your ground for something you believe in.

A would love them to become independent, England would then have one less millstone around its' neck.

 

[simmo]

The key matter in this for all Scots really is does independence mean the loss of Sterling. The present British government (e.g Cameron et al) need to make it clear (if they really want to keep the union, as they say) that full independence means no more sterling.

Independence means you either have to join the Euro (which could collapse) or set up your own currency, that will not be pegged to sterling (unlike the present Scottish pound) that will float and rise or fall on the international markets on it's own and will need to be exchanged into sterling when Scots cross the border into England.

When voters in Scotland see what will occur and think about their personal savings and business commitments they must have with the rest of Britain, maybe independence may not seem such a good idea.

 

[Don Quixote]

He is actually deranged, having a vote on the anniversary of some battle that happened hundreds of years ago and trying to break a nation in two. He is a lunatic, he really is.

 

[sten_super]

The key matter in this for all Scots really is does independence mean the loss of Sterling. The present British government (e.g Cameron et al) need to make it clear (if they really want to keep the union, as they say) that full independence means no more sterling.

Independence means you either have to join the Euro (which could collapse) or set up your own currency, that will not be pegged to sterling (unlike the present Scottish pound) that will float and rise or fall on the international markets on it's own and will need to be exchanged into sterling when Scots cross the border into England.

When voters in Scotland see what will occur and think about their personal savings and business commitments they must have with the rest of Britain, maybe independence may not seem such a good idea.

If I was Scottish I'd be MUCH more concerned at the idea of being part of a currency in which they have no direct control (sterling if they became independent) than the costs associated with having their own currency. Just look at what having a currency without national central bank control has done for Greece and Spain.

 

[The Spanish]

He is actually deranged, having a vote on the anniversary of some battle that happened hundreds of years ago and trying to break a nation in two. He is a lunatic, he really is.

well said. funny how we are so quick to judge English nationalists but the jock mob is quietly patronised. They are worse in my eyes, they are actually close to achieving their goals. Its easy to say Scottish nationalism isnt racist or exclusive when a) their number of ethnic minorities is tiny and has no influence compared to englands urban centres, and b) a lot of aversion to English nationalism is about British middle class snobbery more than any real view on English nationalism. Its about disliking the people rather than the politics, which a lot of people who publically profess to be against secretly understand, but cannot bring themselves to agree with people who they see as crass and embarassing.

Englands one f***ed up place sometimes perhaps the jocks have a point after all.

 

[simmo]

If I was Scottish I'd be MUCH more concerned at the idea of being part of a currency in which they have no direct control (sterling if they became independent) than the costs associated with having their own currency.

Like it has been since 1707 and in fact that is also not really true as well because at present Scottish politicians with Scottish constituencies can get elected to the British parliament and if elected control British economic and political policies that may actually be beneficial to Scotland. The last but one PM comes to mind.

So you reckon it is better for the Scots to have their own currency and that can sink or swim on the international markets then?

 

[Brovion]

Of the many many Socts I have met, I have never, never met one who hates the English. Bit of banter yes, bit of pisstaking yes. but the hatred you describe never. Last time I was in Scotland, strangers were buying me drinks because I had driven all the way from Brighton. Fantastic bunch of people in my experience.

I do concede that maybe their are some Scots that hate the English, but i suspect they just struggle to let go of the past and love to keep up the pathetic rivalry between the two countries. To be honest them and you, and others like you, can keep hating each other till the day you die for all I care. I will continue to take people as i find them regardless of where they happened t be born and/or brought up because it doesn't make any difference to me.

The most English comment I have heard in a very long time and one that explains why as a nation we are disliked the world over.

Hmm. Bit of a contradiction there I think!

I too have spent a lot of time in Scotland as my grandmother was Scottish (I even got married up there). You're right of course inasmuch as not every Scot hates the English - but some do. And some of the anti-English 'banter' might get you banned from NSC if it were written on here.

 

[Commander]

As someone with Scottish ancestors, I might consider taking out Scottish citizenship. Will we be able to hold two passports?

Is there anywhere that you don't claim to either be from, or have some affiliation to?

 

[sten_super]

Like it has been since 1707 and in fact that is also not really true as well because at present Scottish politicians with Scottish constituencies can get elected to the British parliament and if elected control British economic and political policies that may actually be beneficial to Scotland. The last but one PM comes to mind.

So you reckon it is better for the Scots to have their own currency and that can sink or swim on the international markets then?

Sorry, I don't follow. At the moment, as they are part of the UK, their interests are considered when setting interest rates and controlling the money supply. If they became independent they would not have any control or say in monetary policy, which is starkly different to the current situation.

There are undoubtedly risks to floating their own currency, and to be perfectly honest I'm not sure which side of the fence I sit on, but current experiences in the Eurozone very harshly illustrate some of the problems that can come to pass without control of monetary policy.