[Albion] Dan Ashworth

[Stat Brother]

Hughton clearly wasn’t sacked for keeping us up.......he was sacked because he was drifting further and further away from Tony & Dan’s playing philosophy and longer term direction of the club. Dire, defensive, negative football that often stank the place out, not developing/playing younger players etc. Would also argue we haven’t ‘just avoided relegation’ - we were safe earlier than we have been in prior seasons, and we’re miles clear of the bottom 3 now (and might still end up 13/14th, and potentially ahead of Palace).

Villa were awful last season and were lucky to stay up - let’s see if they are consistent. Let’s also see how Leeds do in their second season. I wouldn’t be surprised if we finish above both of them next season given the obvious progression we’ve seen in terms of playing style and ability to compete in virtually every game and happy we’re consistent and showing steady, incremental progress (long term plan anyone ?) rather than doing a Sheff Utd. The current league position is a bit disappointing for sure but taking that as a single indicator in the midst of a long term plan is too binary for me. If we’re all pissing our pants in 17th or worse by Christmas then fair enough but I’m not expecting it.

Is the only reason - it's there for us all to see.

I'm an October man myself - Mr Potter can't piss away two and a half seasons on his dream and still look like 'The Team of the Eighties' II
But like you I'm not expecting it to come to that.


I think next season is going to be a lot tougher.
Sure they'll be a 'surprise' plummet, there usually is, and fortunately it's impossible for that to be the Albion.

But judging by who's coming up we might just finally be in for the mythical 40 point season, esp with Newcastle and palace likely to be fighting out for top spot.

 

[Beach Hut]

But Hughton was sacked for keeping us up. That's my starting point and also the thing that happened before Swansman showed up. Hughton had an excellent first season and kept us up in the second. What's more he did it with a far worse squad.

Now - I was shocked when that decision came but, in hindsight given the awful Bournemouth and Cardiff games, perhaps I shouldn't have been. Nevertheless, I thought the whole point would be to see relative improvement.

I will certainly acknowledge that there has been a very small relative improvement by a few points but it isn't commensurate with the improvement in playing strength.

I find your "just avoiding relegation" depressingly unambitious. NSC laughs at Villa and Leeds for their fans' entitled, big club attitude but then they have genuinely achieved more than us this season. I very much doubt Bielsa or Smith were told "just avoid relegation lads", nor do I suppose that's what they told their players. And yet, as [MENTION=24827]Justice[/MENTION] rightly points out, Leeds have done it with the likes of Ayling and Bamford who Brighton fans were laughing at in the summer.

Houghton was sacked because the style of play was negative and so unattractive to watch is was frightening and not for keeping us up. Allegedly Bloom wanted to sack him after the Cardiff home game however was persuaded not to on the grounds it would look his fault if we were relegated. We were extremely lucky to stay up that year, had that Cardiff transfer not ended in a terrible tragedy I think we would have been relegated. On the train back from Old Trafford that season I had already decided if he was still around the following season then away games were not going to happen anymore for me given our style of play was totally uninspiring.

 

[dadams2k11]

I guess this was lost in the split across two replies by myself. Yes I was there, yes I agree with everything you say. "The plan came together". That looked like the Potterball we were promised. It was hugely impressive. Even the fact it was against 10 men is netted off by the fact it was City. So, as I said, next season really should be better than this.

It's just a shame that one or two seem determined not to let people enjoy it in case it gets in the way of their own egos.

With respect, I think the only ego on here is yours. You appear, from your post, to be a very negative person and always sees the worse side of the coin.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Houghton was sacked because the style of play was negative and so unattractive to watch is was frightening and not for keeping us up. Allegedly Bloom wanted to sack him after the Cardiff home game however was persuaded not to on the grounds it would look his fault if we were relegated. We were extremely lucky to stay up that year, had that Cardiff transfer not ended in a terrible tragedy I think we would have been relegated. On the train back from Old Trafford that season I had already decided if he was still around the following season then away games were not going to happen anymore for me given our style of play was totally uninspiring.

Houghton has never managed us

If you're talking about Hughton then the post you're quoting was in response to a statement I took to mean that staying up was the only requirement. KHP has since clarified that's not what he meant, which also renders my post a bit redundant.

I don't really disagree with anything you posted but there is no doubt that something happened to change us. I was at OT in season 1 and I suspect you were too. We gave them a real game that day and were robbed by a deflected goal. Going full circle to the title of the thread, can you think of anything that might have shifted the way CH thought

 

[Beach Hut]

Houghton has never managed us

If you're talking about Hughton then the post you're quoting was in response to a statement I took to mean that staying up was the only requirement. KHP has since clarified that's not what he meant, which also renders my post a bit redundant.

I don't really disagree with anything you posted but there is no doubt that something happened to change us. I was at OT in season 1 and I suspect you were too. We gave them a real game that day and were robbed by a deflected goal. Going full circle to the title of the thread, can you think of anything that might have shifted the way CH thought

Not for the first time a little put down over a spelling but to be expected.

What changed was what Newcastle and Norwich fans pre-warned us all about how Hughton (might avoid another put-down) would evolve as a manager, what also happened that season was three 1-0 wins on the spin which was very lucky and quite probably ensured quite early we would stay up therefore continue with the negative and boring defensive style.

 

[Justice]

Not for the first time a little put down over a spelling but to be expected.

What changed was what Newcastle and Norwich fans pre-warned us all about how Hughton (might avoid another put-down) would evolve as a manager, what also happened that season was three 1-0 wins on the spin which was very lucky and quite probably ensured quite early we would stay up therefore continue with the negative and boring defensive style.

Newcastle fans loved CH and never wanted him sacked.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Newcastle fans loved CH and never wanted him sacked.

True. They still hold him in high regard unlike Norwich fans.

 

[Hugo Rune]

True. They still hold him in high regard unlike Norwich fans.

Indeed. My Geordie mates had a go at me when Hughton was sacked, they thought we’d made a huge mistake.

All we got from Norwich fans was ‘we told you so’.

 

[dazzer6666]

Indeed. My Geordie mates had a go at me when Hughton was sacked, they thought we’d made a huge mistake.

All we got from Norwich fans was ‘we told you so’.

Maybe the game has evolved since CH was at Toon.............

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

Not for the first time a little put down over a spelling but to be expected.

What changed was what Newcastle and Norwich fans pre-warned us all about how Hughton (might avoid another put-down) would evolve as a manager, what also happened that season was three 1-0 wins on the spin which was very lucky and quite probably ensured quite early we would stay up therefore continue with the negative and boring defensive style.

He had a brilliant relationship with the Geordies, they were mid table scoring goals. Mike Ashley inexplicably sacked him and Newcastle fans have held Hughton in high esteem ever since.

Norwich fans, well, bitter farmers. This time they’ve stuck with a manager taking them down which is what they probably should have done with Chris.

I think only a minority have anything other than positive high regard for Hughton, evidenced by how many followed Forest and their games this season universally wanting him to do well.

 

[Guinness Boy]

He had a brilliant relationship with the Geordies, they were mid table scoring goals. Mike Ashley inexplicably sacked him and Newcastle fans have held Hughton in high esteem ever since.

Norwich fans, well, bitter farmers. This time they’ve stuck with a manager taking them down which is what they probably should have done with Chris.

I think only a minority have anything other than positive high regard for Hughton, evidenced by how many followed Forest and their games this season universally wanting him to do well.

When Norwich binned him off he had them out of the relegation zone, despite having a bottom three budget and being given Van Wolfswinkel up top.

 

[Justice]

He had a brilliant relationship with the Geordies, they were mid table scoring goals. Mike Ashley inexplicably sacked him and Newcastle fans have held Hughton in high esteem ever since.

Norwich fans, well, bitter farmers. This time they’ve stuck with a manager taking them down which is what they probably should have done with Chris.

I think only a minority have anything other than positive high regard for Hughton, evidenced by how many followed Forest and their games this season universally wanting him to do well.

This, it annoys me when the Cardiff and Bmuff games are used for a stick to beat him with, the double over Palace, the FA cup semi final they all happened in the same season yet hardly mentioned. Towards the end we were dross but when you look at the line ups it really wasn’t a surprise.

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

Hughton was sacked because Tony perceived the risk of keeping him to be greater than the risk of replacing him. End of.

 

[Icy Gull]

Going full circle to the title of the thread, can you think of anything that might have shifted the way CH thought

I don’t think CH ever shifted in the way he thought.

I remember there was a rumour that CH had lost the dressing room as the players were sick of playing anti football. I saw somewhere that Bruno said that sometimes the manager needs to listen to the players. After Saints, Cardiff and the embarrassing absolute thrashing by Bournemouth I imagine the players decided they’d have to play like CH wanted to have any chance of not being Championship players the next season. The effort at Spurs and the dire but effective game against Wolves away where we hardly got out of our half followed by the towel chucking in in the first half in the game against Newcastle, which we managed to up in the second half saved us...just. We were saved by Palace against Cardiff and Cardiff being dire and unable to up their game at the end of the season.

CH had run out of ideas and once the players allegedly started rebelling against the negative shite tactics it did for him. Remember the shots of TB’s face in a few games towards the end of the season? He was hating it as much as me. I would 100% have stopped going to games, even though I was tied into 1901 if he’d stayed and continued serving up football that stank the division out.

I was more CH out than I have been for any manager I remember by the end, except maybe Hyypia. I was was shocked but delighted when he was sacked. If that makes me a bad fan, then so be it

 

[Hamilton]

Hughton was sacked because Tony perceived the risk of keeping him to be greater than the risk of replacing him. End of.

I’d add to that that TB clearly saw the Chris had done the job he wanted him to do, ie get us promoted. To retain our PL position and move on he (advised by others) thought something else was required and Chris was not going to, or could not, adapt his style.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Dorset Seagull]

I'm probably more annoyed with going at Swansman personally for yet more shithousery when I should have been asking what the point of bouncing it was?

Has Ashworth been knighted and I'd not noticed? Saved a small child's life? Been given the freedom of Brighton? Got us in the Champions League?

Or are we just about to finish somewhere similar to last season and within three points of our total (at best)? Perhaps this was a reactionary bounce post after one result

You arent a big picture guy are you?

 

[Machiavelli]

But Hughton was sacked for keeping us up. That's my starting point and also the thing that happened before Swansman showed up. Hughton had an excellent first season and kept us up in the second. What's more he did it with a far worse squad.

Now - I was shocked when that decision came but, in hindsight given the awful Bournemouth and Cardiff games, perhaps I shouldn't have been. Nevertheless, I thought the whole point would be to see relative improvement.

I will certainly acknowledge that there has been a very small relative improvement by a few points but it isn't commensurate with the improvement in playing strength.

I find your "just avoiding relegation" depressingly unambitious. NSC laughs at Villa and Leeds for their fans' entitled, big club attitude but then they have genuinely achieved more than us this season. I very much doubt Bielsa or Smith were told "just avoid relegation lads", nor do I suppose that's what they told their players. And yet, as [MENTION=24827]Justice[/MENTION] rightly points out, Leeds have done it with the likes of Ayling and Bamford who Brighton fans were laughing at in the summer.

Two points, the second I've touched on before:
1, I'm with Dazzer, and think your first sentence is odd. Hughton wasn't sacked for keeping us up. It was that he'd served his purpose and, quite patently, had us on a downward spiral. We were full of slow, ageing players, and played negative football. We were really poor in 2018/19, kept up by a run of three well executed but lucky one-nils in Nov(?) 2018. We were worse still in 2019. The difference between where we were then and where we are now is stark.
2, too many football fans have over inflated expectations for their club, and I'd place your 50 point total in that camp. Fine to have it as an ambition, and I don't rule it out as a possibility but, without wanting draft El Pres in, there's the player wages metric. The club do have a long term strategy and ambition to be a regular top ten finisher, but it's long term. Returning to point 1, there's so much in place now for us to push forward towards it but achieving it is such a tough challenge. Bloom is working wonders with his appointments in my view, and I think we're lucky to have GP, DA, PB, PW especially -- and the ride we're on is thrilling, not just because of where we are now, but all the more for future prospects.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Two points, the second I've touched on before:
1, I'm with Dazzer, and think your first sentence is odd. Hughton wasn't sacked for keeping us up. It was that he'd served his purpose and, quite patently, had us on a downward spiral. We were full of slow, ageing players, and played negative football. We were really poor in 2018/19, kept up by a run of three well executed but lucky one-nils in Nov(?) 2018. We were worse still in 2019. The difference between where we were then and where we are now is stark.
2, too many football fans have over inflated expectations for their club, and I'd place your 50 point total in that camp. Fine to have it as an ambition, and I don't rule it out as a possibility but, without wanting draft El Pres in, there's the player wages metric. The club do have a long term strategy and ambition to be a regular top ten finisher, but it's long term. Returning to point 1, there's so much in place now for us to push forward towards it but achieving it is such a tough challenge. Bloom is working wonders with his appointments in my view, and I think we're lucky to have GP, DA, PB, PW especially -- and the ride we're on is thrilling, not just because of where we are now, but all the more for future prospects.

1) That's part of my frustration with Potter - he does not have a slow, ageing squad. Potter has been given better players.

2) And to reiterate the last time I answered that point, that is going to be either two or three wins more than this season to get to 50. Should be eminently doable. Could we have beaten Man U at home, Palace at home and WBA away with better luck and finishing? And that's my other frustration. The finishing, It has been our constant, non-stop, without fail issue. Either that's the players or the types of players or the attacking strategy and decision making. And, to address the budget, I don't see TB owning a Middle East state at any point in the future, nor should he EVER sell the club, so we must be aiming to beat the budget to get top ten. I would suggest that means chipping away at it each season?

 

[Swansman]

1) That's part of my frustration with Potter - he does not have a slow, ageing squad. Potter has been given better players.

2) And to reiterate the last time I answered that point, that is going to be either two or three wins more than this season to get to 50. Should be eminently doable. Could we have beaten Man U at home, Palace at home and WBA away with better luck and finishing? And that's my other frustration. The finishing, It has been our constant, non-stop, without fail issue. Either that's the players or the types of players or the attacking strategy and decision making. And, to address the budget, I don't see TB owning a Middle East state at any point in the future, not should he EVER sell the club, so we must be aiming to beat the budget to get top ten. I would suggest that means chipping away at it each season?

1. But you want to sack the one getting him these players..?

2. Thats not how it works necessarily. Just because you are making progress as a club doesnt mean that every season is going to lead to better results than the previous one. However, as long as the club is making the kind of progress that you dont understand, TB will most likely be satisfied as it should result in long-term gains (if you've heard of such a thing).

 

[vagabond]

You arent a big picture guy are you?

Nail on head.