[Albion] Dan Ashworth

[Weststander]

I heard a valid point in on the radio the other day Bielsa has dragged a middling Champions side to top ten of the PL obviously with a few squad improvements. Potter for all the hype has starved of relegation for two seasons.

That was ManC & Leeds fan Danny Mills on Talksport 30 minutes into the ManC game as were losing 1-0.

Mills spent the half slagging off the Albion and Potter, really disliked us. He thought Jahanbakhsh should’ve twice been sent off for disgraceful violence, trying to hurt players ready for the CL Final.

Sam Matterface actually laughed about his anger and misery.

Mills said “Guardiola and Bielsa world class, then there’s Graham Potter, I just don’t get it. Brian Clough always said the only thing that counts is what happens in the two boxes, who cares about the rest”.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

But how do you define that success?

We're no different in relative success today than under Hughton after PL season #1. That's exactly why there's disagreement.

If we were above Palace and staring up at the top ten with a 50-ish points season this board would be falling over itself with Potter and Ashworth love.

If we were already relegated there'd be way more angst.

But, as we're neither it's as binary as Brexit. If we're going to spend the whole rest of our existence just above relegation with one win in four I hardly see the future growth that must be in the business plan.

Next season it's shit or get off the pot.

Doesn’t really matter how I define that success, I didn’t call for anyone to be sacked. No one has been sacked therefore we can conclude club is happy at present. If I’d asked for a person to be sacked, and it looked like actually things are looking pretty good. I’d take it on the chin as I said. Not sure I’d be trying to justify that opinion so only seeing failure where actually there is some success.

Even now, you seem almost stoic in standing by your own negativity, barely acknowledging anything positive or measure of success, especially with the backdrop of all this playing out behind a dreadful pandemic.

Next season is another season. That is all it is:. Survival again is the principle goal, and will likely always be while we’re here unless we suddenly get into the big money. If we can not have to look down, then happy days.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

I heard a valid point in on the radio the other day Bielsa has dragged a middling Champions side to top ten of the PL obviously with a few squad improvements. Potter for all the hype has starved of relegation for two seasons.

But that one example of success is littered with other examples of failure. Despite numerous decent finishes both Bournemouth and Watford crashed out the league while we finished clear of them. Last season Sheffield Utd finished higher than Leeds are but bottom this season. Fulham and West Brom yo-yo again, as did Norwich.

I’m not sure Bielsa and Leeds great success is a stick to beat us with. Moyes nearly took WHU down last season, now this season they’ve pushed for Champions League. It can be a fickle business, one season’s 40pts is next seasons 60 or only 30. It’s a rollercoaster of a league, not many teams get a 5th go in a row.

 

[Berty23]

The important difference between potter and Bielsa is that he had two seasons in the championship to change their style. Potter had to do it in the premier league and changing us from park the bus and hope for the best merchants while playing against premier league sides is tough. Next season will be Potter’s third and I think that is when he can be properly judged.

 

[Justice]

But that one example of success is littered with other examples of failure. Despite numerous decent finishes both Bournemouth and Watford crashed out the league while we finished clear of them. Last season Sheffield Utd finished higher than Leeds are but bottom this season. Fulham and West Brom yo-yo again, as did Norwich.

I’m not sure Bielsa and Leeds great success is a stick to beat us with. Moyes nearly took WHU down last season, now this season they’ve pushed for Champions League. It can be a fickle business, one season’s 40pts is next seasons 60 or only 30. It’s a rollercoaster of a league, not many teams get a 5th go in a row.

Covid has played a huge part for good and bad, before lockdown I was struggling to see us surviving we were piss poor. Maybe we will now excel with crowds maybe we won’t. I’m just not getting carried away it was the same at the end of last season with the hype.

When comparing squads it would be fair to say Leeds are probably on equal footing the difference being the management have got their striker scoring.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

Covid has played a huge part for good and bad, before lockdown I was struggling to see us surviving we were piss poor. Maybe we will now excel with crowds maybe we won’t. I’m just not getting carried away it was the same at the end of last season with the hype.

When comparing squads it would be fair to say Leeds are probably on equal footing the difference being the management have got their striker scoring.

Agree with you there, nothing to be getting too carried away about, nor too down about for the matter. Just looking forward to it.

 

[Justice]

Agree with you there, nothing to be getting too carried away about, nor too down about for the matter. Just looking forward to it.

I used to look forward to the new season in league 2 us football fans live on hope.

 

[B-right-on]

I heard a valid point in on the radio the other day Bielsa has dragged a middling Champions side to top ten of the PL obviously with a few squad improvements. Potter for all the hype has starved of relegation for two seasons.

That you listen to, take on board and agree with the opinions of Danny Mills about Potter and BHAFC says a LOT about you and your opinions of Potter and Tony Bloom and the rest of the club.

None of it good imo.

 

[dadams2k11]

Some posters on this thread really need to go back and re read what they have written, then give their head a wobble.

 

[Icy Gull]

The important difference between potter and Bielsa is that he had two seasons in the championship to change their style. Potter had to do it in the premier league and changing us from park the bus and hope for the best merchants while playing against premier league sides is tough. Next season will be Potter’s third and I think that is when he can be properly judged.

Saved me posting pretty much the same.

I agree, we should judge Potter at the end of next season, although I’m sure the usual suspects will be judging him after every bad result, whilst making themselves scarce after every good one.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Doesn’t really matter how I define that success, I didn’t call for anyone to be sacked. No one has been sacked therefore we can conclude club is happy at present. If I’d asked for a person to be sacked, and it looked like actually things are looking pretty good. I’d take it on the chin as I said. Not sure I’d be trying to justify that opinion so only seeing failure where actually there is some success.

Even now, you seem almost stoic in standing by your own negativity, barely acknowledging anything positive or measure of success, especially with the backdrop of all this playing out behind a dreadful pandemic.

Next season is another season. That is all it is:. Survival again is the principle goal, and will likely always be while we’re here unless we suddenly get into the big money. If we can not have to look down, then happy days.

But Hughton was sacked for keeping us up. That's my starting point and also the thing that happened before Swansman showed up. Hughton had an excellent first season and kept us up in the second. What's more he did it with a far worse squad.

Now - I was shocked when that decision came but, in hindsight given the awful Bournemouth and Cardiff games, perhaps I shouldn't have been. Nevertheless, I thought the whole point would be to see relative improvement.

I will certainly acknowledge that there has been a very small relative improvement by a few points but it isn't commensurate with the improvement in playing strength.

I find your "just avoiding relegation" depressingly unambitious. NSC laughs at Villa and Leeds for their fans' entitled, big club attitude but then they have genuinely achieved more than us this season. I very much doubt Bielsa or Smith were told "just avoid relegation lads", nor do I suppose that's what they told their players. And yet, as [MENTION=24827]Justice[/MENTION] rightly points out, Leeds have done it with the likes of Ayling and Bamford who Brighton fans were laughing at in the summer.

 

[Icy Gull]

MENTION=24827]Justice[/MENTION] rightly points out, Leeds have done it with the likes of Ayling and Bamford who Brighton fans were laughing at in the summer.

This is true and guess what? I was wrong about them. I am often wrong, if fact I was wrong about how Leeds would do full stop, and I have also enjoyed watching them prove me wrong i was absolutely spot on about Sheffield United though

There is also still time for Potter to be sacked if TB thinks like you, as we all know he keeps his cards close to his chest. I don’t see it though and will be very shocked if he is.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

But Hughton was sacked for keeping us up. That's my starting point and also the thing that happened before Swansman showed up. Hughton had an excellent first season and kept us up in the second. What's more he did it with a far worse squad.

Now - I was shocked when that decision came but, in hindsight given the awful Bournemouth and Cardiff games, perhaps I shouldn't have been. Nevertheless, I thought the whole point would be to see relative improvement.

I will certainly acknowledge that there has been a very small relative improvement by a few points but it isn't commensurate with the improvement in playing strength.

I find your "just avoiding relegation" depressingly unambitious. NSC laughs at Villa and Leeds for their fans' entitled, big club attitude but then they have genuinely achieved more than us this season. I very much doubt Bielsa or Smith were told "just avoid relegation lads", nor do I suppose that's what they told their players. And yet, as [MENTION=24827]Justice[/MENTION] rightly points out, Leeds have done it with the likes of Ayling and Bamford who Brighton fans were laughing at in the summer.

Okay couple of points, I didn’t say ‘avoiding relegation’ is the only goal. So any ambition can start with a foundation principle and that is stay in the league. Everyone bar the top 6 and Everton has been relegated or not in the PL in the last 10 years. You simply cannot ignore that survival is the first goal. That is where you build from and take your ambition from there. There is nothing ‘depressingly unambitious’ about that, it is a real threat every season to every club outside those top say 7 or 8 clubs at present. The ambition of course is then to finish consistently top half and dream of qualifying for Europe.

I was also shocked Hughton went and liked him at the club. However while we can concentrate on points and positions, we are a massive 13 points above relegation, our best GD to date, and beating some of the best sides in the league. It’s head in the sand time if you can’t see any progress or success, even if there’s been some disappointments.

Leeds have done it, Sheff Utd, Southampton, Wolves, Burnley; all had their time in the sunshine. We have another chance to start having ours, I don’t see any reason to be negative about that going forwards.

 

[chaileyjem]

NSC laughs at Villa and Leeds for their fans' entitled, big club attitude but then they have genuinely achieved more than us this season. I very much doubt Bielsa or Smith were told "just avoid relegation lads", nor do I suppose that's what they told their players. And yet, as [MENTION=24827]Justice[/MENTION] rightly points out, Leeds have done it with the likes of Ayling and Bamford who Brighton fans were laughing at in the summer.

Villa were effectively relegated last season save for goal line technology and fans might well have been laughing at the Leeds squad this summer. (Really ?) I I doubt they’d be laughing at their wage bill - eye popping for even the Champ. (Villa likewise )
Yep. They’ve both had good seasons (neither could beat us mind) but context needed given their finances and recent seasons.

PS: well fancy that - potter “I believe we have made progress”
Bloom “I have been delighted with the progress on the pitch (this season)” in the Man City programme this week...

 

[Guinness Boy]

Okay couple of points, I didn’t say ‘avoiding relegation’ is the only goal. So any ambition can start with a foundation principle and that is stay in the league. Everyone bar the top 6 and Everton has been relegated or not in the PL in the last 10 years. You simply cannot ignore that survival is the first goal. That is where you build from and take your ambition from there. There is nothing ‘depressingly unambitious’ about that, it is a real threat every season to every club outside those top say 7 or 8 clubs at present. The ambition of course is then to finish consistently top half and dream of qualifying for Europe.

I was also shocked Hughton went and liked him at the club. However while we can concentrate on points and positions, we are a massive 13 points above relegation, our best GD to date, and beating some of the best sides in the league. It’s head in the sand time if you can’t see any progress or success, even if there’s been some disappointments.

Leeds have done it, Sheff Utd, Southampton, Wolves, Burnley; all had their time in the sunshine. We have another chance to start having ours, I don’t see any reason to be negative about that going forwards.

My post acknowledged a small relative improvement and my posts after the City game were very upbeat. It looked like, as The A Team used to say, the plan came together. Just a shame that a couple of posters have used it as an excuse to try and split the fanbase again so that they can win the internet, instead of joining in a win in front of fans that should have brought us all togther.

Yes - avoiding relegation is obviously the start point. I didn't read that in your original response - I agree with this one ^^

 

[Guinness Boy]

Villa were effectively relegated last season save for goal line technology and fans might well have been laughing at the Leeds squad this summer. (Really ?) I I doubt they’d be laughing at their wage bill - eye popping for even the Champ. (Villa likewise )
Yep. They’ve both had good seasons (neither could beat us mind) but context needed given their finances and recent seasons.

PS: well fancy that - potter “I believe we have made progress”
Bloom “I have been delighted with the progress on the pitch (this season)” in the Man City programme this week...

This is true and guess what? I was wrong about them. I am often wrong, if fact I was wrong about how Leeds would do full stop, and I have also enjoyed watching them prove me wrong i was absolutely spot on about Sheffield United though

There is also still time for Potter to be sacked if TB thinks like you, as we all know he keeps his cards close to his chest. I don’t see it though and will be very shocked if he is.

TB won't sack Potter. In that I've been clear for a good, long while. Nor will Potter go to Spurs.

 

[Swansman]

But Hughton was sacked for keeping us up. That's my starting point and also the thing that happened before Swansman showed up. Hughton had an excellent first season and kept us up in the second. What's more he did it with a far worse squad.

Now - I was shocked when that decision came but, in hindsight given the awful Bournemouth and Cardiff games, perhaps I shouldn't have been. Nevertheless, I thought the whole point would be to see relative improvement.

I will certainly acknowledge that there has been a very small relative improvement by a few points but it isn't commensurate with the improvement in playing strength.

I find your "just avoiding relegation" depressingly unambitious. NSC laughs at Villa and Leeds for their fans' entitled, big club attitude but then they have genuinely achieved more than us this season. I very much doubt Bielsa or Smith were told "just avoid relegation lads", nor do I suppose that's what they told their players. And yet, as [MENTION=24827]Justice[/MENTION] rightly points out, Leeds have done it with the likes of Ayling and Bamford who Brighton fans were laughing at in the summer.

Hughton was not sacked for keeping Brighton up so maybe you should change your starting point.

As for improvement, most think there has been improvement. You dont. Too bad for you.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

My post acknowledged a small relative improvement and my posts after the City game were very upbeat. It looked like, as The A Team used to say, the plan came together. Just a shame that a couple of posters have used it as an excuse to try and split the fanbase again so that they can win the internet, instead of joining in a win in front of fans that should have brought us all togther.

Yes - avoiding relegation is obviously the start point. I didn't read that in your original response - I agree with this one ^^

I have to say I agree with a lot of what you post, particularly around Hughton. However, where I don't agree is around the level of improvement, whilst ordinarily I am a black and white person and probably even argued the same way as yourself on one of the other many threads (particularly around league position and points), I don't know if you went on Tuesday, but to me there was a clear improvement which isn't always visible on television. The movement was excellent and we looked comfortable every time we had the ball, it actually felt looked at times like the Dutch team of the 70s or Brazil 82.

Every player was at ease with themselves and the formation in a way I haven't seen since GP joined. Sure there have been some great performances, and some poor ones as well, but this was different everyone knew their role, when they were pressed the ball was played into an open area where our player was already on the move towards it. That tactical nuance comes from repetition on the training ground.

I am already excited about next season...... lets hope we all get in to witness it.

 

[dazzer6666]

But Hughton was sacked for keeping us up. That's my starting point and also the thing that happened before Swansman showed up. Hughton had an excellent first season and kept us up in the second. What's more he did it with a far worse squad.

Now - I was shocked when that decision came but, in hindsight given the awful Bournemouth and Cardiff games, perhaps I shouldn't have been. Nevertheless, I thought the whole point would be to see relative improvement.

I will certainly acknowledge that there has been a very small relative improvement by a few points but it isn't commensurate with the improvement in playing strength.

I find your "just avoiding relegation" depressingly unambitious. NSC laughs at Villa and Leeds for their fans' entitled, big club attitude but then they have genuinely achieved more than us this season. I very much doubt Bielsa or Smith were told "just avoid relegation lads", nor do I suppose that's what they told their players. And yet, as [MENTION=24827]Justice[/MENTION] rightly points out, Leeds have done it with the likes of Ayling and Bamford who Brighton fans were laughing at in the summer.

Hughton clearly wasn’t sacked for keeping us up.......he was sacked because he was drifting further and further away from Tony & Dan’s playing philosophy and longer term direction of the club. Dire, defensive, negative football that often stank the place out, not developing/playing younger players etc. Would also argue we haven’t ‘just avoided relegation’ - we were safe earlier than we have been in prior seasons, and we’re miles clear of the bottom 3 now (and might still end up 13/14th, and potentially ahead of Palace).

Villa were awful last season and were lucky to stay up - let’s see if they are consistent. Let’s also see how Leeds do in their second season. I wouldn’t be surprised if we finish above both of them next season given the obvious progression we’ve seen in terms of playing style and ability to compete in virtually every game and happy we’re consistent and showing steady, incremental progress (long term plan anyone ?) rather than doing a Sheff Utd. The current league position is a bit disappointing for sure but taking that as a single indicator in the midst of a long term plan is too binary for me. If we’re all pissing our pants in 17th or worse by Christmas then fair enough but I’m not expecting it.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I have to say I agree with a lot of what you post, particularly around Hughton. However, where I don't agree is around the level of improvement, whilst ordinarily I am a black and white person and probably even argued the same way as yourself on one of the other many threads (particularly around league position and points), I don't know if you went on Tuesday, but to me there was a clear improvement which isn't always visible on television. The movement was excellent and we looked comfortable every time we had the ball, it actually felt looked at times like the Dutch team of the 70s or Brazil 82.

Every player was at ease with themselves and the formation in a way I haven't seen since GP joined. Sure there have been some great performances, and some poor ones as well, but this was different everyone knew their role, when they were pressed the ball was played into an open area where our player was already on the move towards it. That tactical nuance comes from repetition on the training ground.

I am already excited about next season...... lets hope we all get in to witness it.

I guess this was lost in the split across two replies by myself. Yes I was there, yes I agree with everything you say. "The plan came together". That looked like the Potterball we were promised. It was hugely impressive. Even the fact it was against 10 men is netted off by the fact it was City. So, as I said, next season really should be better than this.

It's just a shame that one or two seem determined not to let people enjoy it in case it gets in the way of their own egos.