[Politics] Corbyn Party?

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Small point, Clause IV was changed in 1995. And Blair had apparently suggested rewriting it even before becoming leader of the party.
I'm mainly pointing this out to distract myself from the temptation to use unreasonably explicit and vivid imagery in a post slagging off the far left.

I must confess I hadn't been paying attention. I wasn't a party member back then (never had been). This act did banish the 'Bambi' bollocks but I had forgotten that this was before the election, and, er, renders my parallel narrative about Starmer nul and void. Oh well. Never mind. I'm still optimistic.

One can of course take comfort from that fact that not only has Starmer already shaken off Momentum and the other gobshite wankers, he has done so without people really noticing. No fuss. Wait for them to retweet some anti-Semitic trope then pounce and point them towards the sea.

I'm not sure why some voters feel the need to have leaders who willy-wave all the time, spaffing all over the place, and talking a load of florid bollocks. Like Johnson. We need a labour Johnson-equivalent like we need George Galloway. Give me dull and competent any day.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Born the son of a toolmaker and a nurse, passed the 11+ and went to a state grammar school, got a degree in law from Leeds University, appointed QC, went on to become Director of Public Prosecutions and was knighted for it.

Not bad

You're right, state grammar school though? Doesn't sit well with many.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Thatcher?

John Major
Gordon Brown
Theresa May

 

[A1X]

Why?

You didn't actually read what he said and just went along with the headlines, didn't you? Else you'd realise your characterisation of "eulogising Thatcher" was complete bollox.

 

[Soul Finger]

You didn't actually read what he said and just went along with the headlines, didn't you? Else you'd realise your characterisation of "eulogising Thatcher" was complete bollox.

I did, thank you.

He praised Thatcher. End of.

 

[London Irish]

“Proper” socialism is hugely unpopular. The only places using it now have to keep people in the country by force.

The idea that everything should be equal is fundamentally flawed. If we were supposed to be equal then all us blokes on here would be able to throw darts like Luke Littler, shag like John Holmes and play football like Pascal Gross. As the mighty Mark E Smith once said “socialism- everyone ends up wearing brown trousers and driving a Lada”.

As for Magic Grandpa I doubt he could find his way to Westminster these days, bless his anti semitic boots.

Again - why did he ACTUALLY do to convince you he is antisemitic? Not even his worst critics allege that, they come up with some mealy mouthed shit that he failed to address antisemitism, not that he personally hated Jews. It's why politics in this country are so rotten, casual smears are regarded as legitimate if you threaten anything to do with Establishment power and money.

The June 2017 General Election is also evidence against your first claim. That Labour manifesto was popular - it created the biggest rise in the Labour vote since 1945. It was the Brexit issue that cost Corbyn in 2019, with idiotic Remainers cutting their nose off to spite their face and putting Johnson and his hard Brexit into Downing Street rather than compromise with a Labour leader they didn't 100% agree with.

 

[ROSM]

Again - why did he ACTUALLY do to convince you he is antisemitic? Not even his worst critics allege that, they come up with some mealy mouthed shit that he failed to address antisemitism, not that he personally hated Jews. It's why politics in this country are so rotten, casual smears are regarded as legitimate if you threaten anything to do with Establishment power and money.

The June 2017 General Election is also evidence against your first claim. That Labour manifesto was popular - it created the biggest rise in the Labour vote since 1945. It was the Brexit issue that cost Corbyn in 2019, with idiotic Remainers cutting their nose off to spite their face and putting Johnson and his hard Brexit into Downing Street rather than compromise with a Labour leader they didn't 100% agree with.

Your posts aren't designed to win friends and influence people are they?

 

[London Irish]

Your posts aren't designed to win friends and influence people are they?

You could try answering some of the issues I raised if you are interested in this discussion. What I personally am is irrelevant, I'm happy to admit that if it pleases you but 13 million votes in June 2017 wasn't irrelevant, have the intellectual honesty to admit that

 

[WATFORD zero]

It was the Brexit issue that cost Corbyn in 2019, with idiotic Remainers cutting their nose off to spite their face and putting Johnson and his hard Brexit into Downing Street rather than compromise with a Labour leader they didn't 100% agree with.

For most of this idiotic media driven shit, I really can't be arsed with hysterical posters from any side, but I think that is really the single most stupid post in the history of NSC and deserves recognition. Remainers voting for Johnson's 'Get Brexit Done' was definitely what done it


I think Congratulations are in order

 

[ROSM]

You could try answering some of the issues I raised if you are interested in this discussion. What I personally am is irrelevant, I'm happy to admit that if it pleases you but 13 million votes in June 2017 wasn't irrelevant, have the intellectual honesty to admit that

My point was that your post is aggressive and not conducive to debate. However i will indulge you.

At the very least Corbyn was naive. He wrote the forward for a book that referenced jews as controlling bank and the media. He campaigned in front of pictures that contained jewish tropes. He supported and championed organisations who were deemed to be anti semitic. He suppprted people who turned out to be holocaust deniers and he laid wreaths at memorials to anti israel acts (i know he disputes this).

He may not himself be anti semitic but he associates with a lot who are it seems. And doesnt often realise when he has done it.

As for his 2019 defeat. If you cannot see his part in that failure nothing i could say would help you. In 2017 he succeeded to lose against a very poor and divided tory party. He may have scored 4 goals but the opposition scored 5.

Finally as an mp he voted nearly 500 times against his own party when in government whilst never actually raising a private members bill of his own. Great at protest politics but not so good at creating solutions.

 

[ROSM]

For most of this idiotic media driven shit, I really can't be arsed with hysterical posters from any side, but I think that is really the greatest Oxymoron in the history of NSC and deserves recognition.


I think Congratulations are in order

I would also add that analysis by datapraxis after the election identified that labour suffered most in red wall seats by remainers moving to other parties than leavers moving to conservative. Although they lost both. The dithering and delay meant they convinced leavers they were for remain and remainers that they supported leave. There was also no message discipline to assist campaigners on the doorstep. Too many policies with no coherent strategy.

Finally momentum brought a level of local party bullying that made a lifelong kindly, naive and anti racist man seem aligned to bullying amd harassment.

 

[clapham_gull]

"The establishment were shit scared of him and did everything in their power to keep him out."

Extreme simplification.

In reality the large influx of new young members gradually drifted away when they sussed Corbyn wasn't interested in the EU.

Loads of infighting behind the scenes as well, Corbyn didn't talk to McDonnell for months.

Also just be careful insulting peoples intelligence. Corbyn (and the left's) issues with anti-Semitism is well documented and goes back decades.

Its prevalence is minimal, but the denial is widespread and not as you suggest everyone else's fault.

 

[amexer]

Starmer knows he does not need to say anything to get elected. On Corbyne a great many labour supporters would 100% agree with the majrity of his proposals. Without having the anti semitic burden behind him I think Starmer would sill get in easily with same agenda

 

[Guinness Boy]

Again - why did he ACTUALLY do to convince you he is antisemitic? Not even his worst critics allege that, they come up with some mealy mouthed shit that he failed to address antisemitism, not that he personally hated Jews. It's why politics in this country are so rotten, casual smears are regarded as legitimate if you threaten anything to do with Establishment power and money.

The June 2017 General Election is also evidence against your first claim. That Labour manifesto was popular - it created the biggest rise in the Labour vote since 1945. It was the Brexit issue that cost Corbyn in 2019, with idiotic Remainers cutting their nose off to spite their face and putting Johnson and his hard Brexit into Downing Street rather than compromise with a Labour leader they didn't 100% agree with.

No, that’s exactly it. He didn’t address anti semitism in his own party, because it was coming from his supporters.

If there had been wide spread anti BAME memes and tropes being spread inside Labour he’d have been on top of it immediately.

Racial bias.

Brexit had been voted for in 2019 by over three years and Corbyn was a leaver in Remainer’s clothing, just as Johnson was a remainer who chose Leave for personal gain.

They’re all the same mate.

 

[oneillco]

Again - why did he ACTUALLY do to convince you he is antisemitic? Not even his worst critics allege that, they come up with some mealy mouthed shit that he failed to address antisemitism, not that he personally hated Jews. It's why politics in this country are so rotten, casual smears are regarded as legitimate if you threaten anything to do with Establishment power and money.

The June 2017 General Election is also evidence against your first claim. That Labour manifesto was popular - it created the biggest rise in the Labour vote since 1945. It was the Brexit issue that cost Corbyn in 2019, with idiotic Remainers cutting their nose off to spite their face and putting Johnson and his hard Brexit into Downing Street rather than compromise with a Labour leader they didn't 100% agree with.

"idiotic Remainers cutting their nose off to spite their face and putting Johnson and his hard Brexit into Downing Street...* etc. etc. I simply don't recognise this; I'm a staunch Remainer and a staunch Labour voter, and despite Corbyn being useless before the Referendum and unimpressive before the election I gave Labour my vote. It's him who let us down...

 

[zefarelly]

Also, the tories would surely be praying he be allowed to rejoin labour and piss again in its pool.

Perhaps I'm wrong and maybe Corbyn is massively popular with people intending to vote for Starmer. Somehow, I don't....think so. Time will, of course, tell.

Sorry to sound pissy but your post has made me raise an eyebrow.

No problemo. The tories are so bad . . . .they could still win though, I mean they were f***ing dire last time but managed . Labour are not winners. That is the sad truth (IMO)

 

[Wardy's twin]

We'll I'm definitely in, or and completely opposed to anti-Semitism. Can't quite see what Starmer would offer that would sit with my conscience - I certainly couldn't give my support to much of what Labour now advocates.

But not voting for Labour is essentially a vote for the Tories. Time for the far left to realise that splitting the vote is not in working people's interest.

 

[aolstudios]

It depends how anti-semitic you want to be.

This ^

 

[aolstudios]

All things considered - Corbyn upsetting Gammons is still a good thing.

He is one

 

[aolstudios]

He might even hoover up some old working class Red Wall votes, from his career long dislike of the EEC/EC/EU.

I've never met a working class person (including myself) who didn't think he was an arse. Jezza's appeal is pretty much limited to carefully scruffy middle class folk