British man killed by Bull

[Insel affe]

Aint the run, but this is Family fun ? My Arse it is !

 

[Easy 10]

I have no problem eating a burger because it DOESN'T look like a mutilated cow, it just looks like a random interchangeable slab of meat.

So the issue is that you can cocoon yourself from the reality of that mutiliated cows life, and push it from your mind, because that slab of meat doesn't look like a cow and you didn't see it die. Whereas a bull being slaughtered in a ring, in public, is unacceptable to you and is cruel ?

I'm not criticising you, as I have exactly the same cognitive processes when it comes down to it. But if I ever went to a bullring and denounced a fan there as being some kind of sicko - if he then turned round to me and said "do you eat burgers ?", then I know my whole argument about bullfighting being "barbaric" would be completely demolished in an instant. He'd drive a truck through it.

Its a paradox I just cannot ever justify.

 

[Kukev31]

It's all very subjective innit. Personally I'll eat meat because we are meant to, that's how we survive. I can't do much about the way it's produced apart from eat as ethically as i can. I do not need to go and gawk at a matador spearing a bull to death.

We don't eat meat to survive. We can survive perfectly healthy never eating meat in our lives, healthier in some cases.

 

[Commander]

I just BATTERED a wasp that was buzzing around my head for the last five minutes. I enjoyed watching that die. Very much so. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[Kukev31]

So the issue is that you can cocoon yourself from the reality of that mutiliated cows life, and push it from your mind, because that slab of meat doesn't look like a cow and you didn't see it die. Whereas a bull being slaughtered in a ring, in public, is unacceptable to you and is cruel ?

I'm not criticising you, as I have exactly the same cognitive processes when it comes down to it. But if I ever went to a bullring and denounced a fan there as being some kind of sicko - if he then turned round to me and said "do you eat burgers ?", then I know my whole argument about bullfighting being "barbaric" would be completely demolished in an instant. He'd drive a truck through it.

Its a paradox I just cannot ever justify.

This is exactly right. When people eat meat they forget what they are really doing/supporting. People who get all upset by animals being killed/treated cruely and then go and eat them are hypocrites.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

The hypocrisy lies in denying what is happening.

At least bullfighting fans get to see the reality of the kill. Hamburger fans imagine nothing more horrific than a frying pan.

 

[Man of Harveys]

Agreed. I struggle to eat any animal where it looks like the animal it was alive when it's on the plate, if you get me (ie most seafood etc). I have no problem eating a burger because it DOESN'T look like a mutilated cow, it just looks like a random interchangeable slab of meat.

That is IMHO a totally hypocritical approach to eating meat. I don't think anyone should eat meat who doesn't know exactly how it's done, what a slaughterhouse entails and that you are eating dead animals. If nothing else, that simple-minded blind eye approach (and blind eyes are probably one of the ingredients in the burgers you mention) on the part of consumers can let farmers get away with the sort of foul practices that led directly to mad cow disease.

All I'm saying is I think people who actually get an adrenaline buzz or some kind of thrill from watching another creature die have got some genuine deep rooted issues.

I totally agree with that. And for about the third time, from what I've seen of bullfighting in person and on the telly in Spain, and what gets written about it, death pornography is very far from point for those who like it.

 

[beorhthelm]

You honestly think it's ok to enjoy the death of an innocent creature?

you honestly think its your place to judge? just food for thought really, think we sometimes are too eager to scoff at those others, when they might think we are odd for not taking pleasure from the same.

 

[brulee]

im a chef. everybody these days wants everything in nice packets. no bones, no feathers. they like meat, they just dont want to see it in its original form.apples, tomatoes, all the same shape and colour. you think they grow naturally like that.

 

[Easy 10]

The hypocrisy lies in denying what is happening.

At least bullfighting fans get to see the reality of the kill. Hamburger fans imagine nothing more horrific than a frying pan.

Well, I got a particularly RUBBISH toy from Burger King last year during its Hulk promotion ("pivoting hips" my arse, the spring broke on the first swivel). OK, whilst not horrific perhaps, it was certainly a bit disappointing.

 

[TWOCHOICEStom]

This is exactly right. When people eat meat they forget what they are really doing/supporting. People who get all upset by animals being killed/treated cruely and then go and eat them are hypocrites.

So all people who eat meat are hypocrites because they are supporting cruelty to animals? Nice logic.....

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

Any, erm, person who thinks its OK to financially support, stressed and extremely wound up horses getting the shit flogged out of them with whips for FUN, then often getting shot in a second in front of crowds of people for breaking a very fixable leg might just be riding a slightly precariously high moral horse themselves IMHO.

Oh dear Colin.

1. They are not flogged with whips, there are very strict controls over the use of the whip
2. Have you noticed when a jockey falls off the horse will nearly always follow the other horses and infact jump the fences without a jockey or whipping, why is that ?, maybe the get some enjoyment from it, per chance
3. The leg may be fixable but you try getting a Horse to lie down for 3-6 months without wanted to try and get up and stand up causing a rebrakeage or further damage

Still if you feel horse racing is on a par with Bullfighting fine

 

[brulee]

if the bull falls down on the streets, he still gets up and follows the others into the ring. does that mean he gets enjoyment to.

 

[Commander]

Oh dear Colin.

1. They are not flogged with whips, there are very strict controls over the use of the whip
2. Have you noticed when a jockey falls off the horse will nearly always follow the other horses and infact jump the fences without a jockey or whipping, why is that ?, maybe the get some enjoyment from it, per chance
3. The leg may be fixable but you try getting a Horse to lie down for 3-6 months without wanted to try and get up and stand up causing a rebrakeage or further damage

Still if you feel horse racing is on a par with Bullfighting fine

1. TRUE
2. Not sure about this, do you really think they do it for enjoyment? Instinct, maybe. It's unlikely they'd just stop.
3. TRUE


I have to say I agree with Easy earlier on, I'd rather live until 7 in a nice open field, being treated like royalty and shagging bitches all day, then get killed by a matador, than be kept in captivity being fattened up for 3 years and then electrocuted.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

The best meals I've ever eaten were chicken stews from hens we had reared in our own garden, accompanied by home grown spuds, home grown french beans, home grown tomatoes, home grown courgettes and home grown onions. There is something immensely ENJOYABLE about being responsible for the production of an entire plateful of scoff (apart from the salt and pepper).

Does that make me barbaric?

 

[Mellotron]

you honestly think its your place to judge? just food for thought really, think we sometimes are too eager to scoff at those others, when they might think we are odd for not taking pleasure from the same.

What? OK, I'll put it this way:

Anyone who enjoys watching an animal die is seriously SICK in the HEAD. Simple as that.

 

[Mellotron]

So the issue is that you can cocoon yourself from the reality of that mutiliated cows life, and push it from your mind, because that slab of meat doesn't look like a cow and you didn't see it die. Whereas a bull being slaughtered in a ring, in public, is unacceptable to you and is cruel ?

I'm not criticising you, as I have exactly the same cognitive processes when it comes down to it. But if I ever went to a bullring and denounced a fan there as being some kind of sicko - if he then turned round to me and said "do you eat burgers ?", then I know my whole argument about bullfighting being "barbaric" would be completely demolished in an instant. He'd drive a truck through it.

Its a paradox I just cannot ever justify.

Again I think you miss what I'm saying. It's not about how cruel or uncruel the death itself is. I think it's SICK that people ENJOY watching an animal die, whatever situation that might be in.

You cannot tell me there isn't a SINGLE person in the bullring that doesn't get off on seeing the Bull die. I don't "get off" on the death of the cow that goes into my burger. That's the difference, and that's the point I'm trying to make.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Anyone who thinks that a crowd go to a bullfight because they enjoy the killing understands NOTHING about bullfighting.

 

[Mellotron]

That is IMHO a totally hypocritical approach to eating meat. I don't think anyone should eat meat who doesn't know exactly how it's done, what a slaughterhouse entails and that you are eating dead animals. If nothing else, that simple-minded blind eye approach (and blind eyes are probably one of the ingredients in the burgers you mention) on the part of consumers can let farmers get away with the sort of foul practices that led directly to mad cow disease.

No, don't get me wrong. I don't question for a second that the animals are kept in terrible conditions etc. I think you have misunderstood the tone of my post.

My point was this is why we all are able to eat meat, those of us that do. We are able to subconsciously separate a cow from a burger, whether we should or not. (We shouldn't, obviously). You do it, I do it, we all do it.

That line I put in bold sounds so much like something Partridge would've said during his on air argument with Chris Morris as the farmer he had annoyed.

 

[Mellotron]

Anyone who thinks that a crowd go to a bullfight because they enjoy the killing understands NOTHING about bullfighting.

I'm sorry but that is (ironically) bulls**t.

If that's true then OBVIOUSLY they wouldn't go through with the kill. Why would they? Ridiculous.

Exact same argument as the fox hunters, they can do all their traditional prancing around with horns and hounds, just leave out the killing at the end, no?