British man killed by Bull

[Hotchilidog]

The hypocrisy lies in denying what is happening.

At least bullfighting fans get to see the reality of the kill. Hamburger fans imagine nothing more horrific than a frying pan.

The reality of an inevitable kill in a totally one sided confrontation. Bullfighting is an abomination end of.

 

[Hotchilidog]

So all people who eat meat are hypocrites because they are supporting cruelty to animals? Nice logic.....

Only if you don't like cruelty to animals. If you don't mind then you would not be a hypocrite. However you should recognise that eating meat is a choice that you make and not a necessary dietary requirement. If you are content with that then the charge of hypocrisy is unfounded. If you are uncomfortable with that, then it sticks.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

The best meals I've ever eaten were chicken stews from hens we had reared in our own garden, accompanied by home grown spuds, home grown french beans, home grown tomatoes, home grown courgettes and home grown onions. There is something immensely ENJOYABLE about being responsible for the production of an entire plateful of scoff (apart from the salt and pepper).

Does that make me barbaric?

........... and you will never taste better fish than that you have caught and put on a bbq. Delicious.

 

[Easy 10]

I'm sorry but that is (ironically) bulls**t.

If that's true then OBVIOUSLY they wouldn't go through with the kill. Why would they? Ridiculous.

Exact same argument as the fox hunters, they can do all their traditional prancing around with horns and hounds, just leave out the killing at the end, no?

If the audience at bullfights went along merely to "get off" on seeing an animal being killed, then surely those people would just go to an abbatoir and see it happen dozens of times over and again in quick succesion, right before there eyes ?

Rightly or wrongly, there is an artistry, drama and a spectacle involved in bullfighting. A matador is recognised and admired for his skill and bravery, and the manner in which he dispatches the bull.

Now its not my bag at all, as I've said, I wouldn't want to watch it. But that doesn't mean I can sit here and blithely brand all those who enjoy going to watch bullfighting a a bunch of sickos who just want to see an animal killed. Perhaps there is a small proportion of "gore tourists" who just want to see a bull slaughtered, but I think the majority are there to appreciate the spectacle and the matador ni an artistic sense.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

The reality of an inevitable kill in a totally one sided confrontation.

Are you saying the hamburger stands a chance?

I've never heard of Daisy the cow being granted an indulto and being returned to her field.

 

[Hotchilidog]

Now its not my bag at all, as I've said, I wouldn't want to watch it. But that doesn't mean I can sit here and blithely brand all those who enjoy going to watch bullfighting a a bunch of sickos who just want to see an animal killed. Perhaps there is a small proportion of "gore tourists" who just want to see a bull slaughtered, but I think the majority are there to appreciate the spectacle and the matador ni an artistic sense.

Well I'll do it for you, deriving pleasure from watching an animal get killed for your entertainment seems pretty damn sick to me.

 

[Mellotron]

If the audience at bullfights went along merely to "get off" on seeing an animal being killed, then surely those people would just go to an abbatoir and see it happen dozens of times over and again in quick succesion, right before there eyes ?

Rightly or wrongly, there is an artistry, drama and a spectacle involved in bullfighting. A matador is recognised and admired for his skill and bravery, and the manner in which he dispatches the bull.

Now its not my bag at all, as I've said, I wouldn't want to watch it. But that doesn't mean I can sit here and blithely brand all those who enjoy going to watch bullfighting a a bunch of sickos who just want to see an animal killed. Perhaps there is a small proportion of "gore tourists" who just want to see a bull slaughtered, but I think the majority are there to appreciate the spectacle and the matador ni an artistic sense.

Well no, because there's no SPORT to an abbatoir. That's my issue, that they make some kind of game and show out of something that is actually pretty sick.

If they are just there to watch the spectacle and the mastery of the matador, why do they have to go through with the kill? Instead of spears, why don't they use darts that simply knock them out?

If they didn't enjoy killing it, they wouldn't kill it.

 

[beorhthelm]

Anyone who enjoys watching an animal die is seriously SICK in the HEAD. Simple as that.

i bow down before your great moral superiority and guidence.

but then you've already acknowledged you eat in complete denial and ingorance of the animals past, perfering that which least resembles the original animal. so im not sure you really have that strong a moral standpoint, just an aversion to seeing the harsher realities of life. you must hate natural history programmes.

 

[Mellotron]

i bow down before your great moral superiority and guidence.

but then you've already acknowledged you eat in complete denial and ingorance of the animals past, perfering that which least resembles the original animal. so im not sure you really have that strong a moral standpoint, just an aversion to the harsher realities of life. you must hate natural history programmes.

The second half of your post is just a bizarre ramble that is completely unrelated to my posts.

We ALL eat in complete ignorance of our meals' past, duh. Of course we do.

I seriously worry that I can't condemn KILLING (DEATH, DYING, ENDING A LIFE, EXCRUCIATING PAIN) for FUN (ENJOYMENT, BIT OF A LAUGH, SEXUAL THRILLS) as wrong.

Give me an example of killing for fun that is OK.

 

[Hotchilidog]

Are you saying the hamburger stands a chance?

I've never heard of Daisy the cow being granted an indulto and being returned to her field.

You may have gathered from my tone that I am not a big hamburger fan either.

I take your previously made point about people being in denial about the origins of their food. But I sensed from your post regarding bullfighting that you thought there was something more noble about this form of animal slaughter, which I certainly do not agree with. The bull has no chance of surviving these contests and any thoughts that they do are equally delusional. The bull, who is not voluntarily taking part in these 'sporting' events will always end up on the slab.

If that wasn't your intended meaning then I stand duly corrected. But I will certainly stand by my disgust at this revolting activity.

 

[Man of Harveys]

Well no, because there's no SPORT to an abbatoir.

And no-one in Spain would ever consider bullfighting a sport or any kind of contest. It isn't. It's a well-established ritual and you're judged on how well you carry it out. Tellingly the bullfighting reports in the papers are nowhere near the sports sections but in the culture/arts sections, next to the theatre and opera reviews.

 

[Juan Albion]

So if it is okay to say "1-0 bull" because someone chose to run with them and is killed, is it okay to say "1-0 Taleban" when a soldier who chose the army as a career is killed in Afghanistan?

The bulls don't get a say in being included in San Fermin, but then the Taleban would say they didn't ask to be invaded. The bullrunner and the soldier, on the other hand, made a choice to do something inherently dangerous.

Just asking to find out NSC's opinion.

 

[Hotchilidog]

And no-one in Spain would ever consider bullfighting a sport or any kind of contest. It isn't. It's a well-established ritual and you're judged on how well you carry it out. Tellingly the bullfighting reports in the papers are nowhere near the sports sections but in the culture/arts sections, next to the theatre and opera reviews.

Well that makes it alright then. Sake!

 

[Mellotron]

And no-one in Spain would ever consider bullfighting a sport or any kind of contest. It isn't. It's a well-established ritual and you're judged on how well you carry it out. Tellingly the bullfighting reports in the papers are nowhere near the sports sections but in the culture/arts sections, next to the theatre and opera reviews.

Replace the word SPORT with ART then, and my post works just as well. It's nit picking.

 

[Mellotron]

So if it is okay to say "1-0 bull" because someone chose to run with them and is killed, is it okay to say "1-0 Taleban" when a soldier who chose the army as a career is killed in Afghanistan?

The bulls don't get a say in being included in San Fermin, but then the Taleban would say they didn't ask to be invaded. The bullrunner and the soldier, on the other hand, made a choice to do something inherently dangerous.

Just asking to find out NSC's opinion.

I don't think it works as an analogy.

You can't exactly compare the Taliban to a Bull in terms of pure INNOCENCE, can you?

 

[Easy 10]

Well I'll do it for you, deriving pleasure from watching an animal get killed for your entertainment seems pretty damn sick to me.

Like I said, I'd derive no personal enjoyment from watching an animal get killed. Thats why I never have, and never will, go to a bullfight.

But my point is, I can't very well sit here and condemn those who enjoy watching bullfighting when I am a consumer of animal meat. A bull bred for a bullring is bred for a purpose, as is one bred for a burger. One of those will live longer, and have abetter life than the other, and yet we are so very quick to condemn the culture of that, whilst at the same time stuffing our faces with the meat of a beast that has lived probably less than half the life of the other and not been treated anywhere near as well.

Do you not agree with that point ?

 

[Mellotron]

Like I said, I'd derive no personal enjoyment from watching an animal get killed. Thats why I never have, and never will, go to a bullfight.

But my point is, I can't very well sit here and condemn those who enjoy watching bullfighting when I am a consumer of animal meat. A bull bred for a bullring is bred for a purpose, as is one bred for a burger. One of those will live longer, and have abetter life than the other, and yet we are so very quick to condemn the culture of that, whilst at the same time stuffing our faces with the meat of a beast that has lived probably less than half the life of the other and not been treated anywhere near as well.

Do you not agree with that point ?

You are right regarding the comparable qualities of life there. Of course you are.

I think still the people anti-bullfighting are trying to say simply that it's wrong to enjoy a killing. If you go to a bullfight, you kinda have to. That's what's being condemned.

 

[Easy 10]

Well, its been interesting hasn't it ?
Might catch up with this later. Right now, its PUBtime

 

[Mellotron]

Well, its been interesting hasn't it ?
Might catch up with this later. Right now, its PUBtime

I actually think we're mostly in agreement, just coming at this from different angles, if you get me?

 

[Man of Harveys]

Replace the word SPORT with ART then, and my post works just as well. It's nit picking.

No it isn't. You've acknowledged that there is art in the death of bullfighting which is there isn't in the death of the abbatoir. Which has been my point all along: and that's the reason people go, not for a simple bloodlust, which is what often gets portrayed and which is what you seem to think. I respect your view and it's widely held but I really don't think that's true.

And I'm not saying people who object to it have no point, because I don't think that either, especially so if they're vegetarians. And it IS brutal. But for a carnivore to say "it's awful and they go only to cheer on a gory cruel death" whilst eating the bloody flesh of an animal that had a shit life compared to a fighting bulls is, erm, complete bullocks IMHO.