[Politics] Brexit

[Hampster Gull]

Herr T is a tory
perhaps he could stand

No, no he's not. VIews on the EU cross party views

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Herr T is a tory
perhaps he could stand

I guess this proves if one (Cunning Fergus) says something enough times some muppet will think it's true.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

No, no he's not. VIews on the EU cross party views

Are you sure? .. he voted for Corbyn as did many undercover Tories knowing it would make Labour unelectable and has heaped praise on Cameron's excellent negotiation skills plus continually views the horrendous suffering of the Greek people as merely self inflicted as they happily voted for it, your position also I seem to remember. Plus of course you both side with the government and big business in the coming referendum.

Circumstantial evidence yes.. but compelling none the less.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Are you sure? .. he voted for Corbyn as did many undercover Tories knowing it would make Labour unelectable and has heaped praise on Cameron's excellent negotiation skills plus continually views the horrendous suffering of the Greek people as merely self inflicted as they happily voted for it, your position also I seem to remember. Plus of course you both side with the government and big business in the coming referendum.

Circumstantial evidence yes.. but compelling none the less.

I've had many scuffles with HT, he is no tory. that said would be happy if he left the dark side

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I've had many scuffles with HT, he is no tory. that said would be happy if he left the dark side

I know, he revels in the role as Darth Herr Vader.This referendum does throw up some unusual bed fellows, Farage and Galloway, Cameron and Corbyn, Hampster Gull and HT

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Think you are talking about yourself there. You don't like any argument that goes against your beliefs

Sorry? It's not the Remainers who are pouring cold water on all experts who forecast or suggest things they don't like. It wasn't a Remainer who suggested ignoring experts because it was experts (of a different kind) who talked about the Millenium Bug. It wasn't a Remainer who said the Governor of the Bank of England must be bent because he didn't say what they wanted to hear. I'll always listen to the views of Brexit-supporting experts, and not only because of their novelty value. Sometimes I'll agree with them (I think the EU position on live animal exports is appalling) but overall you're right - I always disagree with people I don't agree with.

 

[brighton fella]

I can see how an economist would be interested in a larger and more prosperous UK inside the EU rather than cut-adrift flailing in the mid-Atlantic.

Yes i can see him thinking that as well when it concerns the size of his bank balance.. yes sir no sir thank you very much sir, sickening

 

[brighton fella]

A Brexiter was on here about 5 million posts ago saying that some experts were wrong about the millennium bug so he wasn't going to listen to any experts at all. Especially if they came to a conclusion different to his. It might be better if you joined him and avoided them.

i'd rather follow my gut instinct than to listen to some so called expert on the subject... solely because anyone can be brought.

 

[brighton fella]

Any inner out there prepared to tell me exactly how our hospitals schools etc are to cope with the growing numbers of migrants/immigrants coming to this country each year?

if you can answer me this it'll be the first. not a single person among'st any of you has of yet put an answer to such a simple question. nor have i heard any such answers on the good old trustworthy BBC..

 

[Hampster Gull]

Any inner out there prepared to tell me exactly how our hospitals schools etc are to cope with the growing numbers of migrants/immigrants coming to this country each year?

if you can answer me this it'll be the first. not a single person among'st any of you has of yet put an answer to such a simple question. nor have i heard any such answers on the good old trustworthy BBC..

Build a few more. Where do i pick up my prize?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Any inner out there prepared to tell me exactly how our hospitals schools etc are to cope with the growing numbers of migrants/immigrants coming to this country each year?

if you can answer me this it'll be the first. not a single person among'st any of you has of yet put an answer to such a simple question. nor have i heard any such answers on the good old trustworthy BBC..

The government funds them, builds more, from the increase in taxes. After all, this is what taxes should be used for.

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/1114/051114-economic-impact-EU-immigration

Where do I collect my prize?

 

[gregbrighton]

Looks as if the support for Brexit is falling in the polls. I guess they are going to accentuate the anti-immigration angle because having lost the economic argument the anti-immigration issue is all they have got left. Looks like the Remain In will walk this referendum.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Looks as if the support for Brexit is falling in the polls. I guess they are going to accentuate the anti-immigration angle because having lost the economic argument the anti-immigration issue is all they have got left. Looks like the Remain In will walk this referendum.

You're sounding very much all [MENTION=409]Herr Tubthumper[/MENTION] and his infamous 7 point thread with that post !

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

You're sounding very much all [MENTION=409]Herr Tubthumper[/MENTION] and his infamous 7 point thread with that post !

 

[cunning fergus]

The government funds them, builds more, from the increase in taxes. After all, this is what taxes should be used for.

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/1114/051114-economic-impact-EU-immigration

Where do I collect my prize?

It sounds too good to be true doesn't it?

Last week Channel 4 news ran a story on analysis on the employment position of the 2m EU citizens working in the UK which concluded 88% of them would not get a visa to work in the UK because they were earning below the £20,800 threshold. Reported below.......

http://m.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/1451...orkers_would_lose_UK_jobs_in_event_of_Brexit/

Pro EU managing director of employment agency Adecco, Adam Hawkins said of the report: "Under a scenario where free movement of labour no longer applies and EU workers were subjected to the same visa requirements that are currently in place for non-EEA workers, 88% of EU workers currently working in the UK would fail to qualify".

Whilst this is only EU based, it demonstrates how weak the argument is about the benefits generated by migrants, as this cohort is barely paying any tax at this income level, those on minimum wage will pay none. It is, as the report you attached recognises though likely they generate profit for employers. That is the best argument you can make because the taxpayer is picking up the tab elsewhere else.

For example, the UK taxpayer is now paying to educate 700,000 children in UK schools arising from migration.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/07/migration-pressure-on-schools-revealed/

Is this huge cost to the state, deducted from the supposed contribution of migrant workers in that report?

Many of these children have been born in the UK, is the huge cost to the NHS deducted from the supposed contribution of migrant workers in that report?

There are 10,000 non British prisoners in UK prisons, is this cost of this deducted from the supposed contribution of migrant workers in that report?

I doubt it...........I think it was your fellow countryman Joe Goerballs who said if you repeat a lie often enough it will become the truth.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Any inner out there prepared to tell me exactly how our hospitals schools etc are to cope with the growing numbers of migrants/immigrants coming to this country each year?

if you can answer me this it'll be the first. not a single person among'st any of you has of yet put an answer to such a simple question. nor have i heard any such answers on the good old trustworthy BBC..

Good question. I also have yet to hear a satisfactory answer. Of course simplistic answers like build more completely misses the point that in just one years migration from the EEA we needed to find places for the equivalent of 27 new secondary schools or 100 primary schools. As we have no control of the numbers we cannot plan for school place capacity, we cannot magically build 27/100 new schools every year but we can bump up the class sizes in existing schools effecting the education of all our children.

More than 500,000 primary school pupils taught in 'super-size' classes

New analysis shows schools being forced to exceed statutory limit of 30 to meet demand, with Labour blaming situation on Tory ‘fixation’ with free schools

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/jan/15/primary-schools-oversize-classes-claims-labour

But the good old pro remain Guardian and of course Labour don't seem to have worked out (conveniently ignore) the population surge is largely driven by immigration and is impossible to plan for if we don't have full control of all aspects of immigration.

One last point, the net fiscal benefits/costs of EEA immigration are disputed. Cherry picking one report to suggest it would definitely be beneficial firstly doesn't address my first point but also may not be true.

Similar arguments apply to Hospitals/NHS and housing.

Good luck getting a sensible answer to your question.

 

[Murray 17]

There is a tipping point once immigrants become the majority, since they're obviously going to be in favour of immigration.

Here's my theory (which could be wrong):

Low immigration areas: pro-immigration, not aware of downsides
Medium immigration areas: anti-immigration, aware of downsides
High immigration areas: pro-immigration, since immigrants outweigh others and are pro-immigration.

Very good post.

That is why, I believe, Scotland and Wales are so in favour of remaining. How much immigration do they have? It's all good for them as they reap the benefits of large EU grants, funded indirectly by...us!

 

[Lincoln Imp]

i'd rather follow my gut instinct than to listen to some so called expert on the subject... solely because anyone can be brought.

I don't think you're alone in the Leavers camp on this. School life must have been quite awful for you all.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Any inner out there prepared to tell me exactly how our hospitals schools etc are to cope with the growing numbers of migrants/immigrants coming to this country each year?

if you can answer me this it'll be the first. not a single person among'st any of you has of yet put an answer to such a simple question. nor have i heard any such answers on the good old trustworthy BBC..

You are against present levels of immigration which is a legitimate view to have but the specific question you ask is no different to asking "How will our hospitals and schools in the South East cater for the growing numbers of people moving from the north of England?" Infrastructure develops to the meet the needs, as others have explained, but at the same time the best long term way to discourage people moving from Bolton to Brighton is to make Bolton better. That's the principle behind running the country (or it should be) and it is also the principle behind the EU.

You will, I expect, says there's a big difference between people moving from Bolton and people moving from Bratislava. The difference is that the latter are foreigners, and I guess that is why you are complaining about them. Fair enough.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Very good post.

That is why, I believe, Scotland and Wales are so in favour of remaining. How much immigration do they have? It's all good for them as they reap the benefits of large EU grants, funded indirectly by...us!

We already fund scotland and wales ide of the eu. The reallocation of our net eu contribution to these two countries is far outweighed by our direct contribution to them as part of being in the UK. We provide subsidies because we are all better off together, we all benefit from the union. Sound familiar?