[Politics] Brexit

[brighton fella]

Come now. Are all of these economists wrong? Strip away everything else if 88% of doctors told you to stop eating oranges because it will have a long-term negative impact on your health would you stop eating them? If 88% of mechanics told you that your tires need changing, would you change your tires? If 88% of balloonists told you that that '£' shaped hot-air balloon was unfit to ride would you still make that trip? If 88% of economists told you that that Brexit wil do long-term damage to the UK economy would you still vote to leave?

You can't avoid the point by saying that economists have been wrong before, that's a very weak response. Did all of these econs support entry into the ERM? 9/10 of them? Really?

I'm being honest when I say that if I was for Brexit I would, as a thinking and rational person, look at this and question my motivations.

as a thinking and rational person as you put it have you ever considered if these economists who you highly rate as credible are in fact working in the interest of their own pockets.

 

[pastafarian]

I posted this earlier but in the survey you quote 17 per cent of economists polled actually responded. Seventeen %.

how do you get 88% of all economists think x,when only 17% respond

bit absurd

 

[lawros left foot]

I went out for a drink with 8 friends tonight, all who usually vote Tory, except for me , 6 were inners, 1 outer, 1 undecided, and all thinking of their kids/Grandkids.

 

[pastafarian]

HM Treasury’s analysis has considered the three existing alternatives:

membership of the European Economic Area (EEA), like Norway
a negotiated bilateral agreement, such as that between the EU and Switzerland, Turkey or Canada
World Trade Organization (WTO) membership without any form of specific agreement with the EU

it must be pointed out it is also incredibly absurd and naive to believe that if there was a brexit and everyone was sitting around the negotiating table afterwards
The EU would say here you are there are 3 options you can have and only 3

which one do you want?

 

[lawros left foot]

it must be pointed out it is also incredibly absurd and naive to believe that if there was a brexit and everyone was sitting around the negotiating table afterwards
The EU would say here you are there are 3 options you can have and only 3

which one do you want?

So, what would they say?

 

[brighton fella]

I went out for a drink with 8 friends tonight, all who usually vote Tory, except for me , 6 were inners, 1 outer, 1 undecided, and all thinking of their kids/Grandkids.

One of the fundamental reasons that i am voting out is because i value my daughter and grand kids futures. i dare not what the consequences of staying in could have upon my family..

 

[lawros left foot]

as a thinking and rational person as you put it have you ever considered if these economists who you highly rate as credible are in fact working in the interest of their own pockets.

A bit like Johnson and Farage then?

 

[lawros left foot]

One of the fundamental reasons that i am voting out is because i value my daughter and grand kids futures. i dare not what the consequences of staying in could have upon my family..

Hmmm, I was very surprised with the opinions of my mates, I honestly thought most would want out, but, if anything, they were more enthusiastic about staying in than me.
Six ran their own business, and only one of them wanted out.
Not very representative at all, but quite an eye opener for me.

 

[pastafarian]

So, what would they say?

Hello seems we have some sorting out to do

i cant predict the outcome of these negotiations or what each side will be trying to get,will gain or will lose.

but i certainly dont think the EU will walk into negotiations with a totally blinkered mindset,put 3 options on the table and say pick one of these or nothing else.

Do you?

wont they consider all options proposed to them? after all they are not just considering the EU project they have to think about jobs within the EU and the economies of the remaining states and how they are linked to UK trade.

 

[lawros left foot]

To quote you,
Won't they consider all options proposed them.
What are these options?

 

[pastafarian]

Hmmm, I was very surprised with the opinions of my mates, I honestly thought most would want out, but, if anything, they were more enthusiastic about staying in than me.
Six ran their own business, and only one of them wanted out.
Not very representative at all, but quite an eye opener for me.

its all anecdotal though isnt it.
virtually none of my closest friends want to remain,many are also business owners.

this in itself means nothing
perhaps we just end up with the closest friends who have similar outlooks

which doesnt always apply either .........funny old world eh.

 

[lawros left foot]

its all anecdotal though isnt it.
virtually none of my closest friends want to remain,many are also business owners.

this in itself means nothing
perhaps we just end up with the closest friends who have similar outlooks

which doesnt always apply either .........funny old world eh.

I would grant you that, except, myself and my mates have never agreed on anything political, since before Maggie Thatcher, so I do believe it has some significant, even if its only that we vote on the same side, for the first time ever.



History in the making

 

[pastafarian]

To quote you,
Won't they consider all options proposed them.
What are these options?

the options will be those presented by those trying to get the best deal for this unique UK/EU deal.......who knows what nitty gritty goes on in these meetings.
both groups will have red lines i presume,The UK side will know the public has voted against free movement and to regain control of its borders,voted against social laws coming from brussels and against judicial supremacy from the EU.
It will be a trade bun fight,i dont know the particulars the same as no one knows the current ongoing particulars/options of the TTIP trade bun fight between the US and the EU

a better person to ask about these options would be cameron not me,i hope the Gov are forward thinking/considering plan B should there be a brexit

 

[lawros left foot]

the options will be those presented by those trying to get the best deal for this unique UK/EU deal.......who knows what nitty gritty goes on in these meetings.
both groups will have red lines i presume,The UK side will know the public has voted against free movement and to regain control of its borders,voted against social laws coming from brussels and against judicial supremacy from the EU.
It will be a trade bun fight,i dont know the particulars the same as no one knows the current ongoing particulars/options of the TTIP trade bun fight between the US and the EU

a better person to ask about these options would be cameron not me,i hope the Gov are forward thinking/considering plan B should there be a brexit

So, basically, bet the house on a leap in the dark.


Good strategy.

 

[pastafarian]

I would grant you that, except, myself and my mates have never agreed on anything political, since before Maggie Thatcher, so I do believe it has some significant, even if its only that we vote on the same side, for the first time ever.



History in the making

and thats the important message, In or out this will be history forming.
At least you are considering the long term future even if you have come to the wrong conclusion

im disappointingly seeing a growing number of people simply considering whats best for them only right now especially amongst some younger voters.without considering long term implications

 

[lawros left foot]

and thats the important message, In or out this will be history forming.
At least you are considering the long term future even if you have come to the wrong conclusion

im disappointingly seeing a growing number of people simply considering whats best for them only right now especially amongst some younger voters.without considering long term implications

Im 57, I have three kids in their twenties, I served for 15 years in the forces, two war zones, ect,ect.
Im voting for my kids, and their futures, and their kids.

 

[pastafarian]

So, basically, bet the house on a leap in the dark.


Good strategy.

your words and assessment not mine.

but if you want a leap into the unknown
agreeing the EU is flawed but remaining anyway to try to reform it, when you cant even list the reforms you want let alone even begin to wonder if these unmentioned reforms will even succeed seems like stepping off beachy head with your eyes wide open.

If the reforms dont succeed you are left in an EU for ever that you considered flawed in the first place

 

[pastafarian]

Im 57, I have three kids in their twenties, I served for 15 years in the forces, two war zones, ect,ect.
Im voting for my kids, and their futures, and their kids.

um thats what i said
you have considered the long term implications and the impact on future generations,i totally agree with this rationale. everyone should do it

sadly many are not and are simply thinking of the self

 

[lawros left foot]

I have no doubt the EU is flawed, Farage has been stealing a huge amount from it for years
However, it is better to be in the tent, pissing out, than outside the tent pissing in.
I have to slerp now, busy day tomorrow, but don't take this as a surrender to your views, I still think you're wrong.

 

[pastafarian]

I have no doubt the EU is flawed, Farage has been stealing a huge amount from it for years
However, it is better to be in the tent, pissing out, than outside the tent pissing in.
I have to slerp now, busy day tomorrow, but don't take this as a surrender to your views, I still think you're wrong.

nah ill take it as a capitulation

ive never encountered anyone OUT the tent pissing IN,they usually piss about all over the place somewhere else.

however i have unfortunately encountered someone IN the tent trying to piss OUT, it didnt turn out well,in fact it was a disaster of biblical proportions that had a knock on effect of being trapped IN with no OUT options left when the pisser crashed all over the only way OUT left.you really dont want to be still be IN under these conditions.
This is an awful awful strategy and i would not recommend it at all.

Best get OUT first before you decide to piss at all.

Here endeth the lesson