[Politics] Brexit

[Weststander]

Really? You think all leavers voted due to swallowing the 'campaign' (you think we all watched/read about the bus with the NHS costs) and had no opinions other than that?

OK, again, believe that if it makes you happy.

Brexiteers in the main voted that way because of long held views on:
1. Immigration was deemed too high for their communities.
2. A feeling of being left behind, forgotten by the establishment i.e. London.
3. A distaste for Brussels and Strasbourg have an increasing influence over UK affairs.
4. In some instances, workers and tradesmen had seen their rates of pay/pricing being depleted by far cheaper Polish tradesmen for example.

The other churned out comments are just bitchy soundbites against Brexiteers.

[I voted Remain, but am just honestly passing on the views of Brexiteers I know pre the vote, and also the analysis given by academics].

 

[Grombleton]

Thought it was rhetorical, but Yes and Yes.

It wasn't, but the response was laughable.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

How hilarious that you got five thumbs up for that. No, they didn't. We've had decent debates over it, but you can pretend leavers are all stupid if it makes you happy.


More concerning to me, was this, which has been bothering me:



...''a massive guilt trip over the Grandkids future'', Jesus H Christ who fed that to the poor couple?

If I had voted Leave I wouldn't have felt totally guilty about my grandchildrens' future. My conscience is eased because they should be able to get EU passports. It's everyone else's grandchildren I would have felt awkward about.

 

[clapham_gull]

Really? You think all leavers voted due to swallowing the 'campaign' (you think we all watched/read about the bus with the NHS costs) and had no opinions other than that?

OK, again, believe that if it makes you happy.

I used that as an example, but the wider campaign was driven by neo-liberal ideologists. They appealed to your sense of wanting to be free, but it's really about their freedoms rather than yours. To give them the benefit of the doubt they can't fathom why anybody else wouldn't think like them.

Raab, Davis, Rees Mogg and Farage are very similar. The are a "new right", not particular concerned about immigration but obsessed with low regulation, zero taxes and the shrinking of the state. They are more right wing economically than Thatcher.

They cleverly tapped into a post austerity anti Government / anti Urban / anti political correctness feeling and directed their supporters anger towards the EU. But getting us out of that was a means to an end.

Raab is probably the most extreme in his views.

Suggested feminists are "“obnoxious bigots”.

Blamed peoples food bank use on "cash flow problems" rather than poverty.

Published a book (with other right wing MPs) that stated Brits are the laziest people in the world and we prefer a "lie in" to hard work.

Told a disabled rights campaigner on a television that her demand for more NHS funding was "a childish wish list".

They work for you....

 

[LadySeagull]

No Farage just pretended the poll said that so he could pump the pound up a bit before it crashed.

Course he did.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

So 2 out of 3 showed no increase in support for a referendum and 1 did. And he states a tendency he has observed that less people say yes to a second referendum if you say remain is on the ballot, but within the text of Watfords link, he describes it differently, he says "But when Leave supporters are asked whether there should be another referendum on the principle of Brexit, only one in eight are in favour." The way he describes the question in Watfords link seems to me, that when Leavers are asked if they wanted another Leave/Remain referendum 1 in 8 do, when you just say a peoples vote on the deal, 1 in 4 leavers want it.

Address any queries you may have to Sir John Curtice. Tell him why he is wrong and post the replies on here.

 

[portlock seagull]

How hilarious that you got five thumbs up for that. No, they didn't. We've had decent debates over it, but you can pretend leavers are all stupid if it makes you happy.


More concerning to me, was this, which has been bothering me:



...''a massive guilt trip over the Grandkids future'', Jesus H Christ who fed that to the poor couple?

Agree and have to say, one of the really nastier elements of the Brexit debate is how the young have turned on the elderly as if they're 2nd class citizens. It's really in vogue to blame everything on baby boomers and it's not stopping there as our 'tolerant' and 'liberal' millennials delve into the history books to pin blame on the long since deceased. Only yesterday Mexico asked Spain for an apology re: the conquistadors. Anyone would think money is a motive...

 

[clapham_gull]

Brexiteers in the main voted that way because of long held views on:
1. Immigration was deemed too high for their communities.
2. A feeling of being left behind, forgotten by the establishment i.e. London.
3. A distaste for Brussels and Strasbourg have an increasing influence over UK affairs.
4. In some instances, workers and tradesmen had seen their rates of pay/pricing being depleted by far cheaper Polish tradesmen for example.

Completely, but my point is this. That wasn't the motivation of the main forces and money behind the leave campaign.

This is the oddness of the Leave movement. It has little to do with the campaigns in the 90s.

It was high-jacked by the politics of the 80s. Just like the Labour Party

 

[Thunder Bolt]

This'll fall on lots of deaf ears, but oh well.

At least I've made sure my little one isn't visiting London tomorrow.

Take it, or leave it, I suppose.

https://twitter.com/J_amesp/status/1111367081180700674?s=19


Could be nasty in central London with the yellow vest thugs.

Police are ready for several demonstrations by different factions.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...leave-ukip-eu-met-scotland-yard-a8844181.html

 

[clapham_gull]

Course he did.

Whether he did or not will all come out in the inquiry. Here is a link to "fake news" site Bloomberg, so you can make your own mind up.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...w-pollsters-helped-hedge-funds-beat-the-crash

 

[Chicken Run]

I hope NSC’s Corbynista’s debate this with you, it would make an interesting debate. For a start, you cannot be accused as a Daily Mail reading fascist.

I can only think of two, one’s on his ignore list and LI is probably up Churchill Square punting our copies of the Socialist Worker.

 

[Chicken Run]

They’re probably just saying that to shut their mother up.

Bit mean spirited that comment.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Police are ready for several demonstrations by different factions.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...leave-ukip-eu-met-scotland-yard-a8844181.html

Yes, it won't be pretty. If I still worked in London, I'd be having a long weekend holiday.

 

[nicko31]

This'll fall on lots of deaf ears, but oh well.

At least I've made sure my little one isn't visiting London tomorrow.

Take it, or leave it, I suppose.

https://twitter.com/J_amesp/status/1111367081180700674?s=19


Could be nasty in central London with the yellow vest thugs.

Its the coming together of the Tommy R, the yellow vests, Football Labs Alliance and Mean leaves Means. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Baldseagull]

This'll fall on lots of deaf ears, but oh well.

At least I've made sure my little one isn't visiting London tomorrow.

Take it, or leave it, I suppose.

https://twitter.com/J_amesp/status/1111367081180700674?s=19


Could be nasty in central London with the yellow vest thugs.

I think an outside of the M25 exclusion zone might be a bit drastic.

 

[LadySeagull]

Whether he did or not will all come out in the inquiry. Here is a link to "fake news" site Bloomberg, so you can make your own mind up.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...w-pollsters-helped-hedge-funds-beat-the-crash

People actually read Bloomberg news?

Next, NSC posters will be telling me lots of people are ''likely '' to die and everyone's grandchildren's heritage is at risk, due to the way I voted.

 

[Weststander]

I can only think of two, one’s on his ignore list and LI is probably up Churchill Square punting our copies of the Socialist Worker.

The two who get rather angry if anyone criticises Corbyn or McDonnell in the slightest, are regular political posters (not [MENTION=11928]vegster[/MENTION], who’s good to debate with and doesn’t display childish narkyness), never reply to @HWT’s succinct summaries of Corbyn.

 

[clapham_gull]

People actually read Bloomberg news?

Yes they do. Don't listen to Trump.

As for your economist and law graduate friends (I know many), they are not really a reliable demographic to gauge Brexit one way or the other.

Parliament is full of both and they can't agree.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

I think an outside of the M25 exclusion zone might be a bit drastic.

That was tweeted at a time before the extension - when tomorrow was set to be *no deal* day - and with the army rolling out around Westminster and beyond.

 

[The Clamp]

So all these protestors from various factions are protesting on a weekday? What is that phrase the right leaning and Leave voters use when someone protests for something they believe in? Oh yes.... "Get a job"!