[Politics] Brexit

[golddene]

So if we never joined in 1974 ? would Britain now be on its knees without Big Brother EU ,and we could not find some way of buying cars from Germany .we were an economic wasteland ?

I can remember those days and we were pretty well on our knees then, three day weeks, power cuts, miners strikes, high inflation, high interest rates, etc etc. Wasn't the best time to be starting out in life, managed to buy my first property in 77 after joining the common market, so have always been pro remain and am disappointed with my generation who elected to leave and even more fearful for my children and their offspring for an uncertain future, I retire soon so hope not to be too damaged but wish it could be reversed. I honestly think that no matter how many decided to change their minds this Conservative government would never allow the result to be changed, in my opinion it's what they as a party have wanted since we joined and nothing will stop their taking us out. This is now their only goal and their prize is within grasp. Sad.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

How hilarious that you got five thumbs up for that. No, they didn't. We've had decent debates over it, but you can pretend leavers are all stupid if it makes you happy.


More concerning to me, was this, which has been bothering me:



...''a massive guilt trip over the Grandkids future'', Jesus H Christ who fed that to the poor couple?

There's probably lots of cases where elderly relatives have been harangued by their over entitled remaniac offspring. In their ideal world, we could expect an upper voting age threshold .... or possibly a Logan's Run scenario

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

People actually read Bloomberg news?

Next, NSC posters will be telling me lots of people are ''likely '' to die and everyone's grandchildren's heritage is at risk, due to the way I voted.

Lots of people will die if there is a *no deal* Brexit. No 'likely' needed.

Those who need isotopes and life saving medicine being at initial and most jeopardy.

Brexit with a deal, and we should get away with it.

** Any deal is better than *no deal* **

 

[LadySeagull]

I don't disagree, and have already said I do not support 'no deal', but people are not ''likely to die'' if it happened.

So much alarmist nonsense, do people actually think we only have enough medicines to last till next month, or that we would be unable to obtain it? Wow.

 

[Weststander]

I can remember those days and we were pretty well on our knees then, three day weeks, power cuts, miners strikes, high inflation, high interest rates, etc etc. Wasn't the best time to be starting out in life, managed to buy my first property in 77 after joining the common market, so have always been pro remain and am disappointed with my generation who elected to leave and even more fearful for my children and their offspring for an uncertain future, I retire soon so hope not to be too damaged but wish it could be reversed. I honestly think that no matter how many decided to change their minds this Conservative government would never allow the result to be changed, in my opinion it's what they as a party have wanted since we joined and nothing will stop their taking us out. This is now their only goal and their prize is within grasp. Sad.

In the 70’s the Conservatives in the main were far more pro EEC than Labour. Since then it’s always been a schism between pro and anti EU Conservative policians. For every JRM and Duncan-Smith grabbing publicity, there are ranks of Tory MP’s who were pro European, some with concerns.

I wouldn’t be so sure that Brexit will happen.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

I don't disagree, and have already said I do not support 'no deal', but people are not ''likely to die'' if it happened.

So much alarmist nonsense, do people actually think we only have enough medicines to last till next month, or that we would be unable to obtain it? Wow.

Yes, Wow - but a very bad Wow.

Some medicines have a limited shelf life and cannot be stockpiled. This is more of a problem with isotopes.

Operation Yellowhammer will collapse in under a week; only limited amounts of medicines will able to be imported. With the army on streets at this point, distribution of that small supply will be a problem.


This dystopian disaster all goes away with a deal.

 

[The Clamp]

I don't disagree, and have already said I do not support 'no deal', but people are not ''likely to die'' if it happened.

So much alarmist nonsense, do people actually think we only have enough medicines to last till next month, or that we would be unable to obtain it? Wow.

The issue is that we are already experiencing shortages due to price rises and stockpiling. Normally the NHS at any given time will be experiencing shortages of between 30-60 medicines. At the moment they are experiencing a fluctuation in shortages between 160-300 types of medicines. So no, it won't suddenly happen. It is already happening.

And it works in the other direction. The Netherlands are bracing themselves for shortages in their supply from the UK.

Are people "likely to die"? I don't know but I imagine that is a risk if your life-saving medicine is unavailable. A very real concern is the risk of a shortage of mental health medication. That could very well result in a rise in people taking their own lives or harming others or themselves.

Through my work I have personally administered first aid to people many, many times who have attempted to take their own lives or self harm because they have not had their medication. It's real.

The attitude of "It couldn't happen because somebody will make sure it doesn't happen" is really very naive. Look around you.

 

[LadySeagull]

Yes they do. Don't listen to Trump.

LOL, I don't!

As for your economist and law graduate friends (I know many), they are not really a reliable demographic to gauge Brexit one way or the other.

Parliament is full of both and they can't agree.

True, but the point some people here are struggling to grasp is that intelligent people voted to leave, and not because they saw an article about a bus.

I wouldn’t be so sure that Brexit will happen.

I agree, like I said before, the popcorn is out and I am quite content as an observer, wondering what will happen to Brexit in the end.

Fascinating to have seen the Government and the Opposition (and the Speaker) in this light, though, with no-one coming out smelling of roses, regardless of outcome.

 

[vegster]

I don't disagree, and have already said I do not support 'no deal', but people are not ''likely to die'' if it happened.

So much alarmist nonsense, do people actually think we only have enough medicines to last till next month, or that we would be unable to obtain it? Wow.

So many businesses today run " just in time " regarding stock in order to keep costs down and boost profits.

We have become used to easy, fluid movement of goods both ways across our borders. If you think that completely changing border regulations will not affect this movement then it's my turn to say " Wow! " Suddenly you are putting " shackles " on free trade but you can't see that?

 

[LadySeagull]

Through my work I have personally administered first aid to people many, many times who have attempted to take their own lives or self harm because they have not had their medication. It's real.

You don't need to tell me, although I won't go into that here.

As I said, I do not support no deal.

The attitude of "It couldn't happen because somebody will make sure it doesn't happen" is really very naive. Look around you.

If I was so naive as to fall for alarmist rubbish, I'd have voted remain...

 

[clapham_gull]

True, but the point some people here are struggling to grasp is that intelligent people voted to leave, and not because they saw an article about a bus.

But you drew a parallel with an education and intelligence - I didn't. You can still have/be both and make the wrong decision.

I find it hard (mostly) to argue against the reasons people voted out. What I can't fathom is why you placed that decision in the hands of a class you have very different motivations.

It's quite reasonable to put your money in a bank. It's not reasonable to give your money to a stranger who knocks in the door and says "I'm a bank".

I don't think makes leavers stupid, just incredibly naive politically.

There is always an argument to leave the EU, but this wasn't the time. It's inflamed all sorts of nastiness where even the anti-Islam brigade has jumped on board. What the **** has the EU got to do with that ?

 

[The Clamp]

You don't need to tell me, although I won't go into that here.

As I said, I do not support no deal.




If I was so naive as to fall for alarmist rubbish, I'd have voted remain...

It makes no difference if you don't support no deal. That doesn't stop it being a possibility, does it.

You do seem either very naive or perhaps just don't wish to face up to reality. Unfortunately reality has a way of intruding, wanted or not!

Maybe it will be sorted, maybe it won't be a problem but in my years on this earth one phrase has served me tremendously well; Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

 

[clapham_gull]

If I was so naive as to fall for alarmist rubbish, I'd have voted remain...

But as you stated, you didn't vote for No Deal.

 

[LadySeagull]

No, I didn't.

There were two choices and most people chose to leave.

 

[Hugo Rune]

True, but the point some people here are struggling to grasp is that intelligent people voted to leave, and not because they saw an article about a bus.

32% of Voters with a degree voted leave. That equates to hundreds of thousands.

However, most uneducated people voted leave and most educated people voted remain.


“The most dramatic split is along the lines of education. 70% of voters whose educational attainment is only GCSE or lower voted to Leave, while 68% of voters with a university degree voted to Remain in the EU. Those with A levels and no degree were evenly split, 50% to 50%.”
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted

 

[LlcoolJ]

No Farage just pretended the poll said that so he could pump the pound up a bit before it crashed.

Fact.

 

[clapham_gull]

No, I didn't.

There were two choices and most people chose to leave.

Just.. which is why where we are where we are today.

Placed in the hands of an administration who have quite happily dismissed the concerns of just under half the electorate.

An unprecedented poll on THEIR website, simply dismissed by the Leader of the Commons in Parliament with "let's see whether it get's to 17.5 million".

Astonishing, 50% of the electorate are now officially part of the opposition. The new enemy within.

If they are of that mindset, I wonder what they actually think of the "remaining half".

Not much I'd imagine.

 

[LadySeagull]

“The most dramatic split is along the lines of education. 70% of voters whose educational attainment is only GCSE or lower voted to Leave, while 68% of voters with a university degree voted to Remain in the EU. Those with A levels and no degree were evenly split, 50% to 50%.”

OK.

So, if you take an average person as someone at what you might call the mid point of 'educated' - i.e. with A levels, it was an even split.

And, remembering that older people were less likely to have gone to University anyway, all this confirms again is (under one interpretation of the stats) younger people, who are more likely than older people to have had a degree, mostly voted to remain.

I am sure they did. And it gets us where, precisely?

 

[albion68]

I know you feel the level of immigration was something you wanted to change, but what are the other bad things as far as you are concerned?

The EU IMO is like a socialist orginization controlled from Brussels "We know whats best for you" ,Europe is not doing well high unemployment what happened in Greece .Butter mountains ,put more money in then get out .They waste money within their own club milling around ,Hotels ,boozing ,high life ,Corbyn did not want to remain because why have another Socialist organization controlling his one if he gets power IMO.

 

[Weststander]

The EU IMO is like a socialist orginization controlled from Brussels "We know whats best for you" ,Europe is not doing well high unemployment what happened in Greece .Butter mountains ,put more money in then get out .They waste money within their own club milling around ,Hotels ,boozing ,high life ,Corbyn did not want to remain because why have another Socialist organization controlling his one if he gets power IMO.

In fact, Corbyn and McDonnell have always considered the EU a club that favours big business and the owners of capital, with workers exploited by freedom of movement in that those willing to accept the lowest rate are employed from elsewhere in the union. McCluskey and other key union leaders have gone on record many a time stating that the rights of workers in the UK were gained by the UK labour movement and not from Brussels/Strasbourg.