[Politics] Brexit

[ManOfSussex]

Sigh ..... I was pointing out, despite Watford Zero's apparent expert knowledge, no deal is actually possible - I didn't say it would be nice. It's strange, I've been pointing this out since at least late November and both you and WZ have constantly said 'no deal' isn't actually possible - yet here we are nearly THREE months on with no, nil, zero, zilch progress to prevent a no deal. I wonder what could possibly be done in 37 days to prevent a no deal when nothing could be done in the last 90 ?

So don't really care/just so long as you can say you 'won'/you were right/you don't know what you want, but you know how to get it, you want to destroy the passerby etc - I get it.

Ordinarily no deal shouldn't have been possible at all, anymore than people shouldn't actually wish for it for their own vested interests and be allowed to do their best to make it happen - it's an act of utter self harm as a country, in every sense of the phrase, as well the damage we'll inflict to our former friends, who will still be our neighbours, and further afield outside of Europe too. Some of the damage will be irreparable for a generation at least. I had always worked on the assumption that we would row back from the abyss - The Good Friday Agreement and our international reputation to name but two things that you don't care about as to why - but the lunatics took over the asylum at Westminster quite a while back now. A long time back actually in retrospect. We still might pull back from pulling the trigger, but it's an increasingly forlorn hope with the passing of time.

Still, 37 days to go as you say, you must be counting them down like an excited 9 year old does in November until Christmas Day comes the following month, so congratulations if it happens, you'll be very happy and proud I'm sure.

 

[nicko31]

Interesting that Liam Fox has come out with an big announcement today that in the event of no deal we won't be able to roll over the free trade deal with Japan on 29th March

Jesus wept....lets face it there was always zero chance of this happening, the EU would have to sign it off for anyone to get the same deal its in the text. Maybe something by mid 2020's assuming Brexit happens

 

[Westdene Seagull]

So don't really care/just so long as you can say you 'won'/you were right/you don't know what you want, but you know how to get it, you want to destroy the passerby etc - I get it.

That's not what I said now is it. Feel free to carry on with your inane rant though.

 

[ManOfSussex]

That's not what I said now is it. Feel free to carry on with your inane rant though.

Nothing inane or ranting about my post, it's entirely factual. Feel free to counter any of my points in it.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

That's not what I said now is it. Feel free to carry on with your inane rant though.

Misrepresenting, straw-manning, another persons pov is a standard operating procedure for many remainer regulars on here ... shows the weakness of their arguments.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Misrepresenting, straw-manning, another persons pov is a standard operating procedure for many remainer regulars on here ... shows the weakness of their arguments.

Westdene's got nothing positive to offer or suggest in regards to no deal or it might even remotely stand a chance of working, other than it happening, he's Brexit at any price because it's got to happen, doesn't care about The Good Friday Agreement or this country's standing, or it breaking up as a result of a no deal Brexit - an anarchist, you could say. Bit like you really.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Interesting that Liam Fox has come out with an big announcement today that in the event of no deal we won't be able to roll over the free trade deal with Japan on 29th March

Jesus wept....lets face it there was always zero chance of this happening, the EU would have to sign it off for anyone to get the same deal its in the text. Maybe something by mid 2020's assuming Brexit happens

It's OK. I've been on the phone to Liam and he's personally assured me that our trade deal with Japan will be the 2nd easiest in history...……………..

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Oh dear. Sky was reporting as many as 1 in 4 believe this.

[tweet]1098628076169318400[/tweet]

 

[Bold Seagull]

Oh dear. Sky was reporting as many as 1 in 4 believe this.

While PMQs was a bit dull and repetitive this week, I thought it was very interesting that for the first time (I've heard at least) May laid out to the house that avoiding a no deal was either her deal or remain in the EU. I don't actually recollect her putting it in those terms before. May has always been steadfast that we would be exiting regardless, but this week felt a very different tone. She is under so much pressure to take No Deal off the table, that she has made it a binary choice to avoid No Deal, either her deal or stay in the EU.

 

[Bodian]

While PMQs was a bit dull and repetitive this week, I thought it was very interesting that for the first time (I've heard at least) May laid out to the house that avoiding a no deal was either her deal or remain in the EU. I don't actually recollect her putting it in those terms before. May has always been steadfast that we would be exiting regardless, but this week felt a very different tone. She is under so much pressure to take No Deal off the table, that she has made it a binary choice to avoid No Deal, either her deal or stay in the EU.

To be fair to her, she did say this quite a while ago. I think it was after the deal was first thrown out. She said something along the lines of 'Deal, No Deal, or No Brexit - Parliament need to make up their minds which they want'. Trouble is - they've never had an opportunity yet to ask themselves the 'No Brexit' question.

 

[B-right-on]

Good piece from yesterday's Grauniad about people who have changed their minds on both sides since the vote, and their reasons for it.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ters-who-have-changed-their-minds-over-brexit

Interesting one mentions about how he believed the £350m for the NHS lie. Which some on here have claimed nobody believed.

What a load of Remain-biased Guardian cr@p. So biased its s joke.

 

[Bold Seagull]

What a load of Remain-biased Guardian cr@p. So biased its s joke.

So a piece on people that have changed their minds from EITHER SIDE, is so biased it's a joke!? Brilliant.

 

[beorhthelm]

While PMQs was a bit dull and repetitive this week, I thought it was very interesting that for the first time (I've heard at least) May laid out to the house that avoiding a no deal was either her deal or remain in the EU. I don't actually recollect her putting it in those terms before. May has always been steadfast that we would be exiting regardless, but this week felt a very different tone. She is under so much pressure to take No Deal off the table, that she has made it a binary choice to avoid No Deal, either her deal or stay in the EU.

as noted its not news, and is quite self evident. what other options are there? delay, 2nd referendum, neither resolve anything just move the date of decision.

 

[Bold Seagull]

as noted its not news, and is quite self evident. what other options are there? delay, 2nd referendum, neither resolve anything just move the date of decision.

We all know Brexit can be delayed. She was effectively saying Article 50 would be revoked if her deal isn't voted and Government rejects a No Deal exit. Anyway, perhaps it just a language change, and you're right it doesn't change anything other than how she is presenting the options, which we know aren't the options.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

[tweet]1098508385056632834[/tweet]

 

[pastafarian]

And here's your answer (again)

Oh dear, still going off on a tangent and still reluctant to answer the question put to you I see.
You have dug yourself into a bit of a hole havnt you.
Do you need more time to find your WTO tariff rates that the WTO produces itself and imposes on countries?
How much longer do you want?

 

[pastafarian]

I must be able to knock something up to save me keep giving the same answer to the same questions

It would be rather pointless of you even attempting to knock something up,as you continually avoid answering the question anyway, instead you go off on a tangent when your bullshit runs out and deflect away from the question put to you.

Your wife: ”What do you want for dinner dear?”
Watford Zero: “ I have told you numerous times now, on Sundays I only like to watch Dukes of Hazard repeats. Am I going to have to knock something up for you darling so I don’t have to repeat myself every night with the same answer to the same question?”

and repeat.........

 

[pastafarian]

Oh dear. Sky was reporting as many as 1 in 4 believe this.

Why are you surprised 1 in 4 remoaners (not the same as remainers) are super stupid?

 

[Baker lite]

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/business/derbys-rolls-royce-lands-huge-2542762
More bad news.





On our way.

 

[Bold Seagull]

What do people think on the Peter Kyle / Phil Wilson proposal?

Dear Bold Seagull,

The most frustrating thing about Brexit, through my eyes, is how unbending everyone is. The prime minister suffers defeat after defeat yet keeps coming back to parliament expecting a different outcome.

I truly fear that if we carry on like this faith in our political systems, institutions, and culture - which is the envy of much of the world - will totally collapse. Something has to give.

All the way through Brexit I’ve done my best to give our community voice. I’ve worked with a team of MP’s to come up with ways through that respected the referendum result, could carry a majority in the Commons, and limit the damage any Brexit would do to our long term potential as a nation.

But we’ve been driven to a different destination. It’s a place where both main parties are split over Brexit and factions have widened and deepened over time, not healed. Neither party can be united around a single way forward with enough numbers to carry a vote and both party leaders have opposing views on the next steps. So we’ve reached gridlock.

I’ve sat in the chamber for days, in meetings for hours, and an eternity reading and learning about the workings of our legislative process. I always promised you I’d do my best to tackle the steep learning curve in this job!

A couple of weeks ago I sat down with fellow backbencher Phil Wilson, MP for Sedgefield in the northeast. He represents a northern Leave seat that is traditional in its politics, and I a southern Remain seat who’s political landscape is ever changing. Phil came to spend time in Hove last year and I likewise went up to Sedgefield for a while. We both learned a lot in our political exchange programme!

So Phil and I sat down and talked about ways through the current mess that should equal respect for the communities we represent. After a while a compromise plan started to emerge. The next day we went to sit with an amazing clark of the House, who first started helping the Commons with its legislative work in 1976 so he knows a thing or two! What emerged is a compromise plan that is growing in support and has the very best chance of breaking the gridlock and providing an opportunity for our country to heal.

It’s quite simple.

We intend to table an amendment to the ‘meaningful vote’ which Theresa May must hold before the end of March (she could do this as soon as next week but that is unlikely, but the key thing to know is that the prime minister decides when to do it so we’re constantly holding our breath like you are!). Our amendment makes an offer to government and gives it an instruction.

The offer is that the Commons will allow her ‘deal’ to pass through parliament. The instruction is that her deal must be put back to voter for a ‘confirmatory vote’.

We’ve based the confirmatory vote on the same model used in the Good Friday Agreement, which was also put to the people in the same way. It is very different to the 2016 referendum. That referendum was advisory, this one will be binding. Even better, the second the deal is confirmed by the public it will go onto statute without ever needing to return to parliament. Conversely, if the country refuses to confirm the deal then the status quo is maintained and government is instructed to revoke Article 50, again without having to return to parliament.

It means our compromise plan is not a ‘neverendum’ or ‘best of three’. Our plan offers a definitive end to this nightmare, one way or the other.

If the plan is endorsed by the public, then Remainers will have to accept that they voted on facts and not just the promises of 2016 and we will have to dust ourselves down and work hard to overcome the challenges that lie ahead. Similarly, Leave supports would have to accept the same if it goes the other way, but at least we will have come together as a parliament, which has voted, and a country which would have also voted. In my mind it’s a democratic double-lock. It is the best hope we have of moving forward and healing our divided nation.

In order for the Theresa May’s deal to pass parliament MP’s like me will have to abstain on it once it has been amended to include a confirmatory vote. This is tough. Other people can vote for it. And then people who have been against a referendum will have to have a period of campaigning out in the country. This is a plan where everyone….everyone…has to give something. It truly is a compromise. And my goodness do we need some of that in our public life.

In normal times a plan like this would be impossible even to promote. But the truth is that we are not in normal times. Our political landscape is eccentric to put it politely! That means we are going to need an imaginative way out of this and I truly believe this is it.

MP’s will be able to vote in different ways to allow the bill to pass. Those same MP’s might take different positions on the plan once it’s out of parliament and into your communities and you are all equals with one vote each. This is the kind of flexibility that is needed in our politics right now, don’t you think?

There’s a lot of talk about the ‘establishment’ these days so let me ask you this. There are two ways through this mess now. First, Theresa May can call in small groups of MP’s to a cosy office in Downing Street and offer them knighthoods or new community centres in their constituencies in return for votes. Or we can get the deal she’s negotiated with the EU out of parliament and into our communities up and down and across our nation and invite you into this discussion and give you a say on how we move forward as a country. Which of those two options is an establishment stitch up?

So our plan breaks the gridlock in parliament, offers a definite and definitive end to the Brexit withdrawal nightmare, and is the best chance we have of healing our politics and country.

This is what I have been working so hard on in recent weeks. Good friends of mine have left the Labour Party recently and they’re still friend of mine now. Some are fleeing the Tory Party too. I’m listening to what they’re saying, but please believe me when I say that I have a chance to make a real impact on Brexit with this deal. A small window of opportunity to deliver something that could have a massive and lasting impact on our community and country too. I owe it to you to give this everything I’ve got and that’s what I’m doing.

Loads of you have written to me to express views about the new grouping in parliament and saying what you think I should do. I read every one of those, and so do the team I work with here in parliament, where I’m writing this from, and back home in Hove and Portslade. Can I say a huge ‘thank you’ to everyone who’s written in because the messages you’ve sent express loads of different views but they have all be incredibly kind and supportive. All of us are trying to make our way through this really difficult period in our own ways, you as parents or employees or employers, and me as your MP. The fact that we’re looking out for each other at such a time is something really special and speaks very well of the kind of community we have.

Best

Peter