[Politics] Brexit

[B-right-on]

So a piece on people that have changed their minds from EITHER SIDE, is so biased it's a joke!? Brilliant.

Really?? This is the write up of a supposed 'convert' from Remain to Leave:

I think it would be good to leave so that people realise we’re better off being part of the “club” rather than out of it. If we leave with no deal, in 12 months’ time, we may be begging the EU to take us back.

And that's not biased? Really?

 

[beorhthelm]

It’s quite simple.

why cant Peter and Phil simply vote to accept the deal or revoke Article 50 without all the fussing around with another referendum? we've decided the electorate couldnt be trusted with first result so why go through all the nonsense of another vote? MPs need to take decisive action themselves.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Really?? This is the write up of a supposed 'convert' from Remain to Leave:

And that's not biased? Really?

There were 6 different people interviewed with 6 different takes on it. So no, it's not biased, it was just one persons point of view.

 

[Bold Seagull]

why cant Peter and Phil simply vote to accept the deal or revoke Article 50 without all the fussing around with another referendum? we've decided the electorate couldnt be trusted with first result so why go through all the nonsense of another vote? MPs need to take decisive action themselves.

They can table a motion, but the government needs to put it to a vote do they not? I suspect Peter and Phil could do that, but May would have to put it to the house.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Oh dear. Sky was reporting as many as 1 in 4 believe this.

[tweet]1098628076169318400[/tweet]

Amusing that so many remainers on this thread like to post links to ill-informed comments from some leave voters while continually spouting ill-informed bollox. Care to explain once again why you thought the ECJ is nothing to do with the EU?

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

What do people think on the Peter Kyle / Phil Wilson proposal?

Dear Bold Seagull,

The most frustrating thing about Brexit, through my eyes, is how unbending everyone is. The prime minister suffers defeat after defeat yet keeps coming back to parliament expecting a different outcome.

I truly fear that if we carry on like this faith in our political systems, institutions, and culture - which is the envy of much of the world - will totally collapse. Something has to give.

All the way through Brexit I’ve done my best to give our community voice. I’ve worked with a team of MP’s to come up with ways through that respected the referendum result, could carry a majority in the Commons, and limit the damage any Brexit would do to our long term potential as a nation.

But we’ve been driven to a different destination. It’s a place where both main parties are split over Brexit and factions have widened and deepened over time, not healed. Neither party can be united around a single way forward with enough numbers to carry a vote and both party leaders have opposing views on the next steps. So we’ve reached gridlock.

I’ve sat in the chamber for days, in meetings for hours, and an eternity reading and learning about the workings of our legislative process. I always promised you I’d do my best to tackle the steep learning curve in this job!

A couple of weeks ago I sat down with fellow backbencher Phil Wilson, MP for Sedgefield in the northeast. He represents a northern Leave seat that is traditional in its politics, and I a southern Remain seat who’s political landscape is ever changing. Phil came to spend time in Hove last year and I likewise went up to Sedgefield for a while. We both learned a lot in our political exchange programme!

So Phil and I sat down and talked about ways through the current mess that should equal respect for the communities we represent. After a while a compromise plan started to emerge. The next day we went to sit with an amazing clark of the House, who first started helping the Commons with its legislative work in 1976 so he knows a thing or two! What emerged is a compromise plan that is growing in support and has the very best chance of breaking the gridlock and providing an opportunity for our country to heal.

It’s quite simple.

We intend to table an amendment to the ‘meaningful vote’ which Theresa May must hold before the end of March (she could do this as soon as next week but that is unlikely, but the key thing to know is that the prime minister decides when to do it so we’re constantly holding our breath like you are!). Our amendment makes an offer to government and gives it an instruction.

The offer is that the Commons will allow her ‘deal’ to pass through parliament. The instruction is that her deal must be put back to voter for a ‘confirmatory vote’.

We’ve based the confirmatory vote on the same model used in the Good Friday Agreement, which was also put to the people in the same way. It is very different to the 2016 referendum. That referendum was advisory, this one will be binding. Even better, the second the deal is confirmed by the public it will go onto statute without ever needing to return to parliament. Conversely, if the country refuses to confirm the deal then the status quo is maintained and government is instructed to revoke Article 50, again without having to return to parliament.

It means our compromise plan is not a ‘neverendum’ or ‘best of three’. Our plan offers a definitive end to this nightmare, one way or the other.

If the plan is endorsed by the public, then Remainers will have to accept that they voted on facts and not just the promises of 2016 and we will have to dust ourselves down and work hard to overcome the challenges that lie ahead. Similarly, Leave supports would have to accept the same if it goes the other way, but at least we will have come together as a parliament, which has voted, and a country which would have also voted. In my mind it’s a democratic double-lock. It is the best hope we have of moving forward and healing our divided nation.

In order for the Theresa May’s deal to pass parliament MP’s like me will have to abstain on it once it has been amended to include a confirmatory vote. This is tough. Other people can vote for it. And then people who have been against a referendum will have to have a period of campaigning out in the country. This is a plan where everyone….everyone…has to give something. It truly is a compromise. And my goodness do we need some of that in our public life.

In normal times a plan like this would be impossible even to promote. But the truth is that we are not in normal times. Our political landscape is eccentric to put it politely! That means we are going to need an imaginative way out of this and I truly believe this is it.

MP’s will be able to vote in different ways to allow the bill to pass. Those same MP’s might take different positions on the plan once it’s out of parliament and into your communities and you are all equals with one vote each. This is the kind of flexibility that is needed in our politics right now, don’t you think?

There’s a lot of talk about the ‘establishment’ these days so let me ask you this. There are two ways through this mess now. First, Theresa May can call in small groups of MP’s to a cosy office in Downing Street and offer them knighthoods or new community centres in their constituencies in return for votes. Or we can get the deal she’s negotiated with the EU out of parliament and into our communities up and down and across our nation and invite you into this discussion and give you a say on how we move forward as a country. Which of those two options is an establishment stitch up?

So our plan breaks the gridlock in parliament, offers a definite and definitive end to the Brexit withdrawal nightmare, and is the best chance we have of healing our politics and country.

This is what I have been working so hard on in recent weeks. Good friends of mine have left the Labour Party recently and they’re still friend of mine now. Some are fleeing the Tory Party too. I’m listening to what they’re saying, but please believe me when I say that I have a chance to make a real impact on Brexit with this deal. A small window of opportunity to deliver something that could have a massive and lasting impact on our community and country too. I owe it to you to give this everything I’ve got and that’s what I’m doing.

Loads of you have written to me to express views about the new grouping in parliament and saying what you think I should do. I read every one of those, and so do the team I work with here in parliament, where I’m writing this from, and back home in Hove and Portslade. Can I say a huge ‘thank you’ to everyone who’s written in because the messages you’ve sent express loads of different views but they have all be incredibly kind and supportive. All of us are trying to make our way through this really difficult period in our own ways, you as parents or employees or employers, and me as your MP. The fact that we’re looking out for each other at such a time is something really special and speaks very well of the kind of community we have.

Best

Peter

It's good, but it won't be an end to things if the public reject May's deal, and Article 50 is revoked.

The Kremlin will double their efforts, pump out more and more disinformation, and their agents of influence will be activated again. Farage will tub thump, Banks will fund to his heart's content, the yellow vest thugs will be unleashed.

It needs to be coupled with robust security service response and investigation. Facebook needs to be heavily regulated. RT and Sputnik shut down.

Otherwise it will not end.

 

[Bodian]

What do people think on the Peter Kyle / Phil Wilson proposal?

Is this a real letter/email from Peter Kyle? If so, I must say it's a remarkably open, chatty, and well put together missive from an MP. Where's all the usual party-line rubbish, and not saying anything that might be quoted by anyone adversely, and so on. I like it - wish more people wrote like this.

 

[beorhthelm]

They can table a motion, but the government needs to put it to a vote do they not? I suspect Peter and Phil could do that, but May would have to put it to the house.

no, govenment dominates but doesnt control parliamentry business. recall the fuss before christmas about the Speaker taking more control? besides this isnt intended to get government approval for a vote.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Amusing that so many remainers on this thread like to post links to ill-informed comments from some leave voters while continually spouting ill-informed bollox. Care to explain once again why you thought the ECJ is nothing to do with the EU?

I got muddled up with the ECHR and the ECJ over a year ago. Is that all you've got? Really?

 

[The Clamp]

Really?? This is the write up of a supposed 'convert' from Remain to Leave:



And that's not biased? Really?

I don't think you understand what bias is. Having an opinion is not bias.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

https://twitter.com/J_amesp/status/1098597328397701124?s=19

https://twitter.com/J_amesp/status/1098593772575834115?s=19

Run on the supermarkets next week, after pay day seems likely.

One more massive stockpiling shop to go for me.

 

[Baker lite]

What do people think of this offer?

I think these pair need to concern themselves with the instruction that 17.4 million gave to Parliament in 2016.
https://twitter.com/leaveeuofficial/status/1098720025609949184?s=21
Take a bow son.





On our way.

 

[nicko31]

Oh dear. Sky was reporting as many as 1 in 4 believe this.

[tweet]1098628076169318400[/tweet]

I had a very similar conversation with a member of my extended family / weeks ago, he clear thought no deal was the same as remaining

Little wonder how the Daily Mail successfully groomed millions on a truly industrial scale

 

[nicko31]

To be fair to her, she did say this quite a while ago. I think it was after the deal was first thrown out. She said something along the lines of 'Deal, No Deal, or No Brexit - Parliament need to make up their minds which they want'. Trouble is - they've never had an opportunity yet to ask themselves the 'No Brexit' question.

She said it at her party conference last October

 

[WATFORD zero]

https://twitter.com/J_amesp/status/1098597328397701124?s=19

https://twitter.com/J_amesp/status/1098593772575834115?s=19

Run on the supermarkets next week, after pay day seems likely.

One more massive stockpiling shop to go for me.

That is exactly what I understand the situation to be

 

[WATFORD zero]

So, here we are, getting on for 3 years since the referendum (2 years 8 months for the pedantic) and what have we got ?

NI/Ireland Border
Not one plausible answer to the NI/Ireland border issue from any Brexiteer from the Cabinet through to any of our friends on here. (Unless, one of our learned friends on here has come up with a solution but is a little shy about sharing it ?). So the current suggestion is that we kick it back into the long grass for 2 years and rename it 'the backstop'. That's definitely going to solve the issue

No Deal
Maybe, if we had started preparing for no deal by submitting and starting negotiations on our proposed WTO schedules immediately (instead of over 2 years later), started building lorry parks at the various ports, building customs posts on the NI/Ireland border, starting to build systems and infrastructure to manage 'no deal', recruiting staff to run the new operations and procedures ? As I believe I may have mentioned immediately after the referendum I personally didn't believe it was achievable in 3 years, but I think only a swivel eyed looney would now believe it's achievable in 36 days

A deal with the EU
Always a possibility, but given the above, it was always going to be a matter of where we should bend over and how we should take it

Something else entirely

If only someone could have seen this coming

 

[beorhthelm]

Run on the supermarkets next week, after pay day seems likely.

One more massive stockpiling shop to go for me.

in all seriousness what is this run going to be for: perishable goods, likely impacted by delays at port? or non perishables, which wouldn't be impacted by delays?

 

[Is it PotG?]

in all seriousness what is this run going to be for: perishable goods, likely impacted by delays at port? or non perishables, which wouldn't be impacted by delays?

Indeed. Stocking up on pasta and tins seems pretty pointless (if any such stockpiling is prudent anyway). Only fresh produce may be slightly affected briefly, good luck to anyone stockpiling apples and kumquats.

 

[portslade seagull]

in all seriousness what is this run going to be for: perishable goods, likely impacted by delays at port? or non perishables, which wouldn't be impacted by delays?

But the EU have stated there will be no hold ups

 

[ManOfSussex]

in all seriousness what is this run going to be for: perishable goods, likely impacted by delays at port? or non perishables, which wouldn't be impacted by delays?

Perhaps he wants to get in there and get stocked up before prices go up, panic buying ensues and any civil disorder breaks out?

You've got to make the best of a bad situation, and if we're going down the pan as a country lets do it in style, so to be perfectly honest if no deal happens I'm personally quietly looking forward to the latter, though we won't be able to sing 'you burnt your home town' at Palace anymore as we've been able to post 2011 riots.