[Politics] Brexit

[Westdene Seagull]

Don't fret, you've only got 37 days to wait until you find out I was right all along

Patience is a virtue.
:

I'm not fretting at all. It is very noticable that you won;t answer the question as to why you know no deal is impossible yet all the people I listed and more think it is. Come on, don;t deflect the question, actually answer it. Deflection just suggests you're guessing and hoping your right in 37 days time. Put your money where your mouth is.

 

[ManOfSussex]

I'm not fretting at all. It is very noticable that you won;t answer the question as to why you know no deal is impossible yet all the people I listed and more think it is. Come on, don;t deflect the question, actually answer it. Deflection just suggests you're guessing and hoping your right in 37 days time. Put your money where your mouth is.

With all the economic, diplomatic, logistical, practical, infrastructural, political and social chaos there'll be, both here and abroad, and our global reputation and standing reduced to that of an international pariah, how do you think no deal is a valid, viable option then? How will it work and be sustainable? Or do you not really care, just so long as you can say you 'won'?

 

[Baker lite]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/15bn-surplus-is-remarkable-give-lacklustre-growth-k8jm8rqt3
More bad news.




On our way.

 

[pb21]

Looks like the Peter Kyle/Wilson Amendment will save the day.

Is this where the public are asked to effectively ratify May’s deal in lieu of MPs?

It seems reasonable to me.

 

[knocky1]

Is this where the public are asked to effectively ratify May’s deal in lieu of MPs?

It seems reasonable to me.

Peter Kyle:
"Our amendment makes an offer to government and gives it an instruction.
The offer is that the Commons will allow her ‘deal’ to pass through parliament. The instruction is that her deal must be put back to voter for a ‘confirmatory vote’.
We’ve based the confirmatory vote on the same model used in the Good Friday Agreement, which was also put to the people in the same way. It is very different to the 2016 referendum. That referendum was advisory, this one will be binding. Even better, the second the deal is confirmed by the public it will go onto statute without ever needing to return to parliament. Conversely, if the country refuses to confirm the deal then the status quo is maintained and government is instructed to revoke Article 50, again without having to return to parliament."

 

[WATFORD zero]

I'm not fretting at all. It is very noticable that you won;t answer the question as to why you know no deal is impossible yet all the people I listed and more think it is. Come on, don;t deflect the question, actually answer it. Deflection just suggests you're guessing and hoping your right in 37 days time. Put your money where your mouth is.

I believe I have answered the question a number of times over the last two years (even I'm bored with me repeating myself ). Here's an answer from a year ago as to what hasn't been done for 'no deal' and it appears nothing much has changed in the last 12 months

The NI/Ireland Border
The New customs posts
The new Lorry Parks at all ports
The negotiation of our new schedules and quotas with the WTO
The design, building and testing of the new IT systems to run the WTO tariffs and rules
The IT infrastructure to run the new systems
The recruitment and training of the new staff to run the new systems/rules etc

I must be able to knock something up to save me keep giving the same answer to the same questions

 

[Triggaaar]

Peter Kyle:
"Our amendment makes an offer to government and gives it an instruction.
The offer is that the Commons will allow her ‘deal’ to pass through parliament. The instruction is that her deal must be put back to voter for a ‘confirmatory vote’.
We’ve based the confirmatory vote on the same model used in the Good Friday Agreement, which was also put to the people in the same way. It is very different to the 2016 referendum. That referendum was advisory, this one will be binding. Even better, the second the deal is confirmed by the public it will go onto statute without ever needing to return to parliament. Conversely, if the country refuses to confirm the deal then the status quo is maintained and government is instructed to revoke Article 50, again without having to return to parliament."

What do people think of this offer?

 

[WATFORD zero]

Wonderful, so Juncker is lying when he says no deal is possible and you are telling the truth when you say no deal is impossible.........genius




It isn’t an answer as you are going off on a tangent yet again onto tariff rate quotas and uncertified schedules and avoiding sticking to the question at hand and your "WTO tariff rate" and still avoiding saying what your “WTO tariff” is, try and answer the question put to you without going off on a tangent. If you still will not say which of the two rate types (bound and applied) you are referring to as the Default WTO tariff rate, look at it another way.


Bound Tariff Rates
The Bound (ceiling) rates as part of our 715 page submitted schedule are contained in here.
http://data.parliament.uk/DepositedPapers/Files/DEP2018-0770/UKs_Goods_Schedule_at_the_WTO.pdf

Applied Rates
Can be set lower than the bound rate but not yet published as we don’t know deal or no deal,

WTO default tariff Rates
This is your differing third option
Can you please provide a list of or link to the default import tariff rates made by the WTO themselves, that are according to you different to the applied and bound rates we make and that you say we will be forced to use instead of our own bound and applied rates, even though we and others set our own import rates(both bound and applied)?
Preferably from the WTO tariff database on the WTO website itself and not just a list of numbers off the internet.


This is daft as you have already acknowledged countries set their own import rates,both the ceiling rate and the applied rate,for example imports on shoes into the EU are set by the EU at 8%,where as Japan sets imports of shoes at between 20%-30% , its a bit mad to now say countries do not set their own import rates......have you told Gove?

Anyway im back off to the hospital so i look forward to you supplying the WTO import tariff rates that they set themselves by the time i get back.

And here's your answer (again)

It's good that you have finally taken an interest in the way the WTO operates, even if it is nearly 3 years too late !

(And Meg always told me you were a shy 'no dealer' so I am glad that's been cleared up)



I'll do this slowly, so you can understand.

These rates are set by the UK 'as confirmed by Gove'

TRUE BUT IRRELEVANT AS OUR SCHEDULES WILL NOT BE PASSED IN 38 DAYS.

We can choose different rates across different product lines.

TRUE BUT IRRELEVANT AS OUR SCHEDULES WILL NOT BE PASSED IN 38 DAYS.

Tariff rate commitments, (both ceiling rate and applied rate) are decided by the UK, together with quotas (which will help explain to you why there are the two rates). This is a method of controlling volumes of imports.

TRUE BUT IRRELEVANT AS OUR SCHEDULES WILL NOT BE PASSED IN 38 DAYS.

I'll try one last time.

Because we don't have any agreed schedules, and will not have in 38 days we will use the WTO 'default tariffs'. There is only one default tariff, because there are no quotas and, therefor, no method of controlling volumes. The UK still has some control. By product, we can decide to charge the default tariff or not charge the default tariff. And whatever we decide applies to all WTO members under the Most-favoured-nation (MFN) rules.


You can keep wittering on with whataboutisms for ever more, but these are the simple facts.

I must be able to knock something up to save me keep giving the same answer to the same questions

 

[pb21]

What do people think of this offer?

I like it, but I cant imagine that Parliament would vote for it.

 

[Triggaaar]

I like it, but I cant imagine that Parliament would vote for it.

I doubt the government would put it to a vote, but if they did I could see a lot of MPs supporting it.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I believe I have answered the question a number of times over the last two years (even I'm bored with me repeating myself ). Here's an answer from a year ago as to what hasn't been done for 'no deal' and it appears nothing much has changed in the last 12 months



I must be able to knock something up to save me keep giving the same answer to the same questions

You have also been wrong a number of times over the last two years (i am also bored). Cabinet ministers are threatening to vote against the government/resign unless no deal is taken off the table. Numerous MP's are trying to get a binding amendment to prevent no deal happening. I have told you numerous times just because we and the EU aren't ready for a no deal scenario doesn't mean it can't happen.

 

[WATFORD zero]

You have also been wrong a number of times over the last two years (i am also bored). Cabinet ministers are threatening to vote against the government/resign unless no deal is taken off the table. Numerous MP's are trying to get a binding amendment to prevent no deal happening. I have told you numerous times just because we and the EU aren't ready for a no deal scenario doesn't mean it can't happen.

That's right, I remember. It seems like only yesterday when we used to agree on this, but it was actually 9 months ago and of course, everything has changed since, hasn't it

Once again you seem to be assuming because the UK or the EU wouldn't be ready it couldn't possibly happen. Hypothetically speaking I would expect Emergency measures continuing the current arrangments with a transition period until both sides can adjust to the new reality.

So, in the event of 'no deal' the extension of EU membership that you suggest would be an 'Emergency' extension and therefore not an extension at all but a 'no deal'.

One where we wouldn't implement WTO rules and tariffs immediately but continue to pay the EU while we build an Irish border, border posts, lorry parks at all the ports, customs points at all ports and airports, design and build IT and manual systems to manage WTO rules and tariffs and then train up all the staff required ?

You seem to be very clear about this

I must be able to knock something up to save me keep giving the same answer to the same questions[/QUOTE]

 

[Two Professors]

That's right, I remember. It seems like only yesterday when we used to agree on this, but it was actually 9 months ago and of course, everything has changed since, hasn't it






I must be able to knock something up to save me keep giving the same answer to the same questions

[/QUOTE]

No need to knock anything up.Just buy yourself one of these,and spare the board from your constantly edited lies.

 

[nicko31]

Peter Kyle:
"Our amendment makes an offer to government and gives it an instruction.
The offer is that the Commons will allow her ‘deal’ to pass through parliament. The instruction is that her deal must be put back to voter for a ‘confirmatory vote’.
We’ve based the confirmatory vote on the same model used in the Good Friday Agreement, which was also put to the people in the same way. It is very different to the 2016 referendum. That referendum was advisory, this one will be binding. Even better, the second the deal is confirmed by the public it will go onto statute without ever needing to return to parliament. Conversely, if the country refuses to confirm the deal then the status quo is maintained and government is instructed to revoke Article 50, again without having to return to parliament."

Sounds incredibly undemocratic, would be far better go for no deal that all of the 52% voted for

 

[WATFORD zero]

No need to knock anything up.Just buy yourself one of these,and spare the board from your constantly edited lies.

View attachment 104843[/QUOTE]

Shouldn't you be busy sorting out your Bilateral deals with individual EU members

I must be able to knock something up to save me keep giving the same answer to the same questions

 

[JC Footy Genius]

That's right, I remember. It seems like only yesterday when we used to agree on this, but it was actually 9 months ago and of course, everything has changed since, hasn't it






I must be able to knock something up to save me keep giving the same answer to the same questions

Providing quotes showing we didn't agree, repeating the point I am making now ... brilliant. Yes those emergency measures are coming thick and fast and no that doesn't mean continued EU membership as you stated.

 

[Two Professors]

No need to knock anything up.Just buy yourself one of these,and spare the board from your constantly edited lies.

View attachment 104843

Shouldn't you be busy sorting out your Bilateral deals with individual EU members

I must be able to knock something up to save me keep giving the same answer to the same questions[/QUOTE]

You could even get one by tomorrow,contribute to NSC,and spare us any more of your bilge.

 

[knocky1]

What do people think of this offer?

Depends whether they are more Jeremy Kyle than Peter Kyle.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I believe I have answered the question a number of times over the last two years (even I'm bored with me repeating myself ). Here's an answer from a year ago as to what hasn't been done for 'no deal' and it appears nothing much has changed in the last 12 months



I must be able to knock something up to save me keep giving the same answer to the same questions

But you've answered the question you wish had been asked NOT the one that WAS asked.

I'll simplify it for you - all these experts close to the process say there's a possibility of a 'no deal' Brexit happening - I'd like to know why you think you MUST be right and all these experts wrong ?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

With all the economic, diplomatic, logistical, practical, infrastructural, political and social chaos there'll be, both here and abroad, and our global reputation and standing reduced to that of an international pariah, how do you think no deal is a valid, viable option then? How will it work and be sustainable? Or do you not really care, just so long as you can say you 'won'?

Sigh ..... I was pointing out, despite Watford Zero's apparent expert knowledge, no deal is actually possible - I didn't say it would be nice. It's strange, I've been pointing this out since at least late November and both you and WZ have constantly said 'no deal' isn't actually possible - yet here we are nearly THREE months on with no, nil, zero, zilch progress to prevent a no deal. I wonder what could possibly be done in 37 days to prevent a no deal when nothing could be done in the last 90 ?