[Politics] Brexit

[hans kraay fan club]

Erm...



So did I.

Fair enough.

Makes your last post even more ridiculous then

 

[Baldseagull]

This short selling practice you dislike and it’s affect on the lives of ordinary people..........can you recall George Soros and how he made over a billion on Britain’s exit from the ERM?

He must be the living embodiment of the very “worst sort of tossers” to quote you.......or maybe not?

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/pol...rexit-campaign-best-for-britain-a3809821.html

Capitalists eh?

Whilst I don't think it is a morally grand position, what Soros did was legal, he saw what everyone else saw and made his bet. Farage had information no one else had, and misrepresented that information to the media, maybe you can think of an innocent reason he would do that, I can't.

 

[Commander]

Fair enough.

Makes your last post even more ridiculous then

It was just a fun little observation, all right? Fridays are meant to be FUN.

 

[Baldseagull]

The problem is that, in theory, we could a result like 31% remain and 23% for each of the three remain options so Remain wins, even though more than twice as many people wanted to leave - a complete distortion of people's wishes.


That's why a second referendum is a terrible idea, it's just going to muddy the waters some more

3 remain options? I don't think you have grasped how preferential voting works.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

It was just a fun little observation, all right? Fridays are meant to be FUN.

Sorry. Long week, and there is nothing remotely funny about this omnishambles.

To steal a lovely hashtag from [MENTION=943]Chesney Christ[/MENTION] I am #Brexhausted

 

[Commander]

Sorry. Long week, and there is nothing remotely funny about this omnishambles.

To steal a lovely hashtag from [MENTION=943]Chesney Christ[/MENTION] I am #Brexhausted

I am also #Brexhausted. I like that.

 

[CHAPPERS]

urgh.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...efuses-to-let-great-grandparents-remain-in-uk

The Home Office is trying to separate a couple from their four British children, 11 grandchildren and a great-grandchild by forcing them to return to Iran.

The 83-year-old great-grandfather and 73-year-old great-grandmother, who bought their flat in Edinburgh in 1978, live near their close-knit family and depend heavily on their daily support. But they also act as co-parents to one of their grandchildren, a teenager with severe autism who requires constant supervision. Their help enables the boy’s mother – a single parent – to continue her work as an NHS nurse.

Separation of the teenager from his grandparents, Mozaffar Saberi and Rezvan Habibimarand, would be extremely detrimental to him and also to his mother, the couple’s daughter, according to a chartered psychologist with expertise in children with autism, who has written a report provided to the Home Office.

“Going back to Iran would be the end for us,” said Habibimarand. “We have so many illnesses that it would not just be physically the end for us, because there is not the level of healthcare we need in Iran, but emotionally the end too: there’s no one in Iran for us to go back to.”

Navid Saberi, the couple’s son, said: “With no exaggeration, sending them back to Iran would be a death sentence. The day-to-day help and support my siblings and I give our parents isn’t available to be purchased in Iran, even if we could somehow get the necessary money into the country – which is not at all guaranteed because of the sanctions. The distress of having to live alone would mean my parents’ end would come very soon.”

The couple have made repeated human rights applications to remain in the UK since 2013 but the Home Office has refused all of them. Their final appeal is due to be heard soon.

John Vassiliou, a partner at McGill & Co Solicitors, said: “The Home Office does not give any weight to the relationships with their adult children and contrary to the conclusions of the independent expert, and without so much as an interview with any member of the family, took the view that their autistic grandson could adapt to their absence.

“They also said that the child’s mother ‘can seek assistance from social services who can provide specialist care for her son’. It seems that the Home Office would prefer that someone quit their job and resort to burdening the public purse rather than allowing the child’s grandparents to stay and help out.”

Although the couple raised their children in the UK, they never sought British citizenship. But because they originally came to the UK as visitors and then made a human rights claim to remain, it is highly likely that – even if their health allowed it – any future visit visa would be refused.

“The consequence is that they would be unable to see their family again unless the family all travelled to Iran to see them,” Vassiliou said. “That comes with its own problems, especially for their autistic grandson.”

Prior to July 2012 – just nine months before the couple made their application – an adult relative’s acute need of emotional, physical or even financial support from their UK-based adult children would have been enough for them to be granted visas. But the then home secretary, Theresa May, introduced sweeping changes to the immigration rules to reduce net migration” to the UK, which included a tightening of what is known as the “adult dependant relative” rule.

“The consequence of this tightening is that it has become almost impossible for any British citizen or settled person to bring their adult parents in to the UK to live with them,” Vassiliou said. “The criteria that have to be satisfied are so severe that I have yet to meet anyone who has been able to meet them.”

The couple’s upcoming appeal is based on the claim that the Home Office has failed to properly take into consideration the best interests of the autistic child, has never spoken to any member of the family and has found grounds for refusal by equating the couple’s faltering health due to old age with an inability to act as co-parents to the child on an emotional level.

The refusal letter, Vassiliou said, makes “bewildering statements”, such as: “It is noted that you own the house you reside in Edinburgh, therefore you could choose to allow your daughter and grandson to live there on your return to Iran, which then would not impact on your grandson as you claim he visits you there every day.”

Vassiliou added: “In all of this, the government seems to have completely lost sight of the fact that these are two very elderly people with nobody in Iran, and with an entire family spanning three generations in the UK. It seems inhumane to us that such a matter is even up for debate.”

A spokesperson for the Home Office said: “All UK visa applications are considered on their individual merits, on the basis of the evidence available and in line with UK immigration rules.”

This ****ing shower of a government are going to ruin this country and they are being cheered on. What a disgusting state of affairs.

 

[Stat Brother]

 

[btnbelle]

If you want to play that game.....Over 4 MILLION people signed a petition for a 2nd referendum.

https://petition.parliament.uk/archived/petitions/131215

I am not playing a game....

I was simply using the petition, as a poster, was suggesting my opinion was extreme. I was showing how many extreme people there are in the UK in his/her eyes.

 

[btnbelle]

I am #Brexhausted

You have just united the nation with three words.

 

[Simster]

Sorry. Long week, and there is nothing remotely funny about this omnishambles.

To steal a lovely hashtag from [MENTION=943]Chesney Christ[/MENTION] I am #Brexhausted

I am also #Brexhausted. I like that.

It was better when you two gimps were squabbling to be honest.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I am not playing a game....

I was simply using the petition, as a poster, was suggesting my opinion was extreme. I was showing how many extreme people there are in the UK in his/her eyes.

About 7% as many, as there are right-minded people in favour of a new vote, judging by those two petitions....

 

[btnbelle]

I present my case for a second referendum mlud.

I have explained why a second referendum would not work. Leave voters would refuse to vote in protest. The turnout would be too low to be democratic.

 

[Gwylan]

3 remain options? I don't think you have grasped how preferential voting works.

Oops, I meant Leave options

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I have explained why a second referendum would not work. Leave voters would refuse to vote in protest. The turnout would be too low to be democratic.

Leave voters refusing to vote, in protest, would be great.

I'm all for that suggestion.

 

[btnbelle]

About 7% as many, as there are right-minded people in favour of a new vote, judging by those two petitions....

Remainer's are just more noisy...

 

[btnbelle]

Leave voters refusing to vote, in protest, would be great.

I'm all for that suggestion.

The turnout would be too low to make it valid!

 

[Bodian]

I have explained why a second referendum would not work. Leave voters would refuse to vote in protest. The turnout would be too low to be democratic.

Really? Leave voters would refuse to vote and therefore defeat their own aims?

If the referendum was a two-parter, ie: ''Remain or Leave', and if the outcome is leave then with 'this deal or no deal'' it would be just about the most democratic process possible. If the vote was still to leave, then remainers would more than likely accept it as this time everyone has more idea of what it all means and still want to go ahead, and if the secondary part ends up being 'leave with May's deal' then I very much suspect Parliament would push it through. If, on the other hand past leave voters have now seen what it actually means and change their minds to vote remain - then that would also be a democratic outcome.

Why would leave voters refuse to vote in protest when they would have the big chance to not only vote leave, but to also say what sort of leave they mean?

 

[A1X]

Guess what when you lose you should be ignored.

That's the antithesis of democracy and displays a fundamental misunderstanding of the role of Government. Most left this sort of attitude behind them in the school playground.

 

[Triggaaar]

So we can agree to disagree on the subject of the no deal negotiation strategy, but a good discussion and I respect you views.

Ok.

However, you are clearly interested or believe in having a strong negotiating position, and yet the leader of the opposition should walk in without one? And that is childish? I don't get the logic.

He can walk in with one, but he won't even walk in. He isn't in government and isn't even at the table. How is it helpful to the country if he won't even go and talk?

Labour have said since the election they favoured a customs union / single market style route. There has been no offer of any discussion even though May has known this from the moment the GE result was announced, that her own party would be split and she would have to rely on votes from across the house to get any deal through. But still she has ploughed on with her red lines in the sand, pandering to a minority in the house not the majority, and not offering any talks or concessions. Then suddenly she wants a chat with the leader of the opposition, after it has got this far, after she postponed the first vote, another pointless time wasting exercise, and Corbyn is childish. Remarkable.

I agree that May's actions have been daft, and she has had plenty of criticism on here for them. I now think that Corbyn refusing to talk is daft, so I'm criticising him too. It seems you find criticism of him unacceptable.