[Politics] Brexit - Deal we have or Rejoin CU/SM

[Nobby Cybergoat]

I would like it to be before I shuffle off, please.

You'll need to hang in there for a while yet

 

[Thunder Bolt]

You'll need to hang in there for a while yet

I’ll try.

 

[Doonhamer7]

Labour won’t do that, throwing away future opportunities to govern alone. From their angle, why gift a load of seats to loathed rivals such as the LibDems and Greens?

Not true, the current electoral system is not in labour’s favour. at 2019 election it only took 38,246 votes to get a Tory mp, 50,837 to get a Labour mp, 336,038 to get a libdem and 866,354 to get a Green vote. So the current system is loaded to help the Conservatives, going to some form of PR would swing the balance towards Labour

 

[GT49er]

The thread for discussion is here The Brexit thread as always. But it was pointed out that we haven't had a poll for 7 years, and what with it being summer. No fence sitting

Before the referendum we hadn't had a vote on our membership of the EU (or whatever at the time the EEC had lined up for everyone, like it or not) for 40 years......

So wait your f***in' turn! 2056'll be fine (and fair).

 

[Is it PotG?]

Before the referendum we hadn't had a vote on our membership of the EU (or whatever at the time the EEC had lined up for everyone, like it or not) for 40 years......

So wait your f***in' turn! 2056'll be fine (and fair).

I think it should be an annual event.

 

[Weststander]

Not true, the current electoral system is not in labour’s favour. at 2019 election it only took 38,246 votes to get a Tory mp, 50,837 to get a Labour mp, 336,038 to get a libdem and 866,354 to get a Green vote. So the current system is loaded to help the Conservatives, going to some form of PR would swing the balance towards Labour

The ‘Progressive Alliance’ of anyone-but-Tory, is a figment of the imagination of a few Tory hating voters.

The Greens, LibDems and Labour loath each other as parties and politicians, at local and national level. Competition. A Brighton Labour councillor mocked the Greens post locals.

Labour may win 350 seats next December. If it was full PR, voters would have a free hand with no need for tactical voting. The Greens might take 10% of all seats, for example. Devout Rejoiners, especially non-socialists would vote LibDem.

Labour will never throw away that wonderful opportunity and it’s not rare (1997, 2001, 2005).

Separately that stat you mention very often favours Labour, due to the modern equivalent of rotten boroughs, where depopulated seats unfairly guarantee a Labour MP. In 2005 it took 27,000 votes to elect a Labour MP, 44,500 to eleact a Tory MP. Hence by Labour always oppose constituency boundary reform.

 

[GT49er]

I think it should be an annual event.

Like 70%+ of NSC, I'm sure you would. Democracy is about which way the number of people who can vote, and do vote, wouldn't you agree?

Some would undoubtedly welcome some sort of Politburo agency deciding which votes should be counted. Maybe the minority that voted remain would have liked that too...... but i think that's pretty much the way Fascism works. Worse than death, that, eh?

Can't win 'em all!

 

[Lever]

I think it should be an annual event.

Classic weak irony; surely you can do better than this....

Weak ironic 'thumbs up' please.....

 

[Lever]

Like 70%+ of NSC, I'm sure you would. Democracy is about which way the number of people who can vote, and do vote, wouldn't you agree?

Some would undoubtedly welcome some sort of Politburo agency deciding which votes should be counted. Maybe the minority that voted remain would have liked that too...... but i think that's pretty much the way Fascism works. Worse than death, that, eh?

Can't win 'em all!

I suppose it is true that the self harm Brexit caused had to be endured because of the outcome of the 2016 Referendum (regardless of the manifest lies told by both sides prior to the vote).

I think the issue now is how much economic and reputational harm should we take before we actually do something (democratic) to stop it.

Leave voters like you continue to claim the moral high ground over the 'democracy' of the 2016 Referendum and that continues to ensure we remain where we are, diminished as a country; and so we're stuck in decline!

Thank goodness the percentage who follow this creed are diminishing. An ever increasing number of decent people in this country are beginning to recognise the historic error of their Leave Vote and are now moving in the right direction.....,

 

[chickens]

Like 70%+ of NSC, I'm sure you would. Democracy is about which way the number of people who can vote, and do vote, wouldn't you agree?

Some would undoubtedly welcome some sort of Politburo agency deciding which votes should be counted. Maybe the minority that voted remain would have liked that too...... but i think that's pretty much the way Fascism works. Worse than death, that, eh?

Can't win 'em all!

Absolutely not, but I do believe that where voters feel they may have erred in their judgment, it must be open to any voter to change their mind.

It must be remembered that the promised vision when campaigning for Brexit included a Customs Union, and vast economic benefits.

Having lived the reality for a few years now (albeit still with the customs checks not implemented at our side, it’s almost as if we were totally unprepared) I think we see the reality of Brexit. It’s not quite looking like the vision promised. There’s a derelict shopping centre on the sunlit uplands, and it’s incessantly pissing down.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Like 70%+ of NSC, I'm sure you would. Democracy is about which way the number of people who can vote, and do vote, wouldn't you agree?

Some would undoubtedly welcome some sort of Politburo agency deciding which votes should be counted. Maybe the minority that voted remain would have liked that too...... but i think that's pretty much the way Fascism works. Worse than death, that, eh?

Can't win 'em all!

So what is the best bit of your Brexit 'win', because from what you have posted on NSC over the years, you obviously are not in a position to share the cabal's 'wins'

But something for you to look forward to, rumour has it that Johnson is getting a weekly column in the Daily Mail. All your Christmases come at once

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Like 70%+ of NSC, I'm sure you would. Democracy is about which way the number of people who can vote, and do vote, wouldn't you agree?

Some would undoubtedly welcome some sort of Politburo agency deciding which votes should be counted. Maybe the minority that voted remain would have liked that too...... but i think that's pretty much the way Fascism works. Worse than death, that, eh?

Can't win 'em all!

Local council elections in May, some votes weren’t counted. Over 800 postal votes were ‘found’ a few days later.
Trump shouted at Georgia to find him 1100 more votes. The companies who provide postal votes sued Fox News for saying their vote counters were faulty.
Democracy is shaky and relies on trust.
Talking of which, Boris Johnson changed the accountability of the Electoral Reform from Parliament to Prime Minister a couple of years ago.

Still trusting democracy? Everyone said Remain would win, but at 3am, the pound suddenly dropped like a stone with Farage looking like he’d won the lottery. Yes, there were people betting against our currency, who made a killing.
Similar to Odey, and the Kwarteng budget last September.

Follow the money.

 

[Creaky]

Stop being so small minded. Have some ambition for our country to trade with the rest of the world freely. There are huge opportunities to tap into. We have a free trade deal with EU and don’t need to be in CU to do that.

Much depends on your definition of “free trade” - buy materials from a non-eu country, use those to make widgets then try to sell tariff free in the eu.

 

[Lever]

Brexit to blame for rising inflation, says former Bank of England governor

Mark Carney says Bank’s negative predictions about consequences of leaving EU ‘proven to be the case’

www.theguardian.com

... but Mark Carney is an expert so I expect Brexiters will switch off to his analysis.

 

[Machiavelli]

I'm going to sit on the fence, and say that I don't like the binary @WATFORD zero has offered, and I'd vote to be in the EU (which I did in 2016). Doing so, will bring a rejoin dividend over night: inflation would plummet, and interest rates will follow soon behind, foreign trade will increase, ...

 

[WATFORD zero]

Brexit to blame for rising inflation, says former Bank of England governor

Mark Carney says Bank’s negative predictions about consequences of leaving EU ‘proven to be the case’

www.theguardian.com

... but Mark Carney is an expert so I expect Brexiters will switch off to his analysis.

What's that ? The Emperor has no clothes ? NO F***ING WAY !

Why didn't someone say before now

 

[WATFORD zero]

I'm going to sit on the fence, and say that I don't like the binary @WATFORD zero has offered, and I'd vote to be in the EU (which I did in 2016). Doing so, will bring a rejoin dividend over night: inflation would plummet, and interest rates will follow soon behind, foreign trade will increase, ...

And Mortgage rates, they seem a hot topic at the moment

 

[GT49er]

So what is the best bit of your Brexit 'win', because from what you have posted on NSC over the years, you obviously are not in a position to share the cabal's 'wins'

But something for you to look forward to, rumour has it that Johnson is getting a weekly column in the Daily Mail. All your Christmases come at once

Winning the referendum feels good. Couldn't care less if some prats think that makes me a fascist, xenophobic racist - I know that I am not, and that they are the bigots. Don't gve a shit about Johnson and the Daily Mail (unless some outraged leaver posts a link and I take a look to see what they are whittering on about). Rejoining the customs union, not hugely against that - that was what people (not me though) voted for in the 1970s. However, knowing the EU's delight in going for the thin end of the wedge, I'm out.
A deal where the thin end of the wedge was specifically, legally and unequivocally excluded, I wouldn't mnd. but I don't trust the EU - or the Labour Party (in spite of Starmer's statements - his rank and file aren't with him) or the Greens to not sneak us back in - including joining the Euro and the European army and all the rest of the bollocks. .....................and as for the Lib Dems!!!! They're shite!

 

[rogersix]

Winning the referendum feels good

winning financial ruination feels good....................... i can't argue with that

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Winning the referendum feels good. Couldn't care less if some prats think that makes me a fascist, xenophobic racist - I know that I am not, and that they are the bigots. Don't gve a shit about Johnson and the Daily Mail (unless some outraged leaver posts a link and I take a look to see what they are whittering on about). Rejoining the customs union, not hugely against that - that was what people (not me though) voted for in the 1970s. However, knowing the EU's delight in going for the thin end of the wedge, I'm out.
A deal where the thin end of the wedge was specically, legally and unequivocally excluded, I wouldn't mnd. but I don't trust the EU - or the Labour Party (in spite of Starmer's statements - his rank and file aren't with him) or the Greens to not sneak us back in - including joining the Euro and the European army and all the rest of the bollocks. .....................and as for the Lib Dems!!!! They're shite!

I’ve said this before, we did not vote for a trading agreement in the 70s, as we had already joined the equivalent of EFTA in 1960.
Since 2016, we’ve thrown the baby out with the bath water, and leavers like yourself should be campaigning for the trade agreement to be restored, to help businesses etc.
Those of us on regular medication are facing difficulties at the chemists because, they’re not in stock, so come back next week. Over 90% of insulin comes from Denmark, for example.

After all, the Leave campaign, said, Nobody is talking about leaving the Single Market. Even Farage, said we could have a Norway deal. All lies of course.