Are conspiracy theories destroying democracy?

[Guinness Boy]

Its very simple. . Ex CIA states 911 was known about before it happened and Bush used it to go to war.. join all the dots of everything that doesnt add up. There are huge holes in the official government statements post 911. Nothing else to say really is there? Your mind is either open or closed.

Yours is closed.

 

[pastafarian]

There are huge holes in the official government statements post 911. Nothing else to say really is there? Your mind is either open or closed.

there are huge holes in your head

 

[Goldstone76]

Presumably you do actually realise how difficult this makes it to debate anything with you? If everything that the experts that support your perspective say is 'true' and everything that the experts on the other side say is because they are 'sheeple', how is anyone ever going to persuade you that anything other than what you believe it true?

I put far more faith in the experts view than non experts. Please go and find plus 1600 engineers etc. Who say 911 happened the way the 911 commission state it did. Your right. . I cannot be swayed because it doesnt add up even to the emergency services and victims families. Its a cliche but its true to say that those who believe in the official line are uncomfortable with the possibility that the USA coild do such an act to itself. But then again it has a long history of lies, deceipt and self serving agendas. The NSA's recent exposure is just the tip of the iceberg. If people really think that whats fed to us is the truth is misguided imho.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Conspiracy theories help preserve democracy by challenging an officially-sanctioned version of events. Take the illegal and immoral decision to invade Iraq for example. The officially-sanctioned version is the least of all plausible versions of events, as history will eventually confirm when the war criminals are dead and the papers are released.

 

[Goldstone76]

Conspiracy theories help preserve democracy by challenging an officially-sanctioned version of events. Take the illegal and immoral decision to invade Iraq for example. The officially-sanctioned version is the least of all plausible versions of events, as history will eventually confirm when the war criminals are dead and the papers are released.

Weapons of mass destruction! My arse! Dr David Kelly committed suicide? Dont think so.. Iran and oil is the real agenda plus the huge income created for the arms industry of which several US politicians are benefactors.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Weapons of mass destruction! My arse! Dr David Kelly committed suicide? Dont think so.. Iran and oil is the real agenda plus the huge income created for the arms industry of which several US politicians are benefactors.

Not forgetting the crude smear campaign in the UK against many of the high-profile opponents of the immoral and illegal invasion.

 

[Goldstone76]

Not forgetting the crude smear campaign in the UK against many of the high-profile opponents of the immoral and illegal invasion.

Tony Blair on WMD..

September 24, 2002 – House of Commons
“The Joint Intelligence Committee concludes that Iraq has chemical and biological weapons, that Saddam has continued to produce them, that he has existing and active military plans for the use of chemical and biological weapons, which could be activated within 45 minutes, including against his own Shia population, and that he is actively trying to acquire nuclear weapons capability.”

September 28, 2004 – Speech to the Labour Party
“Do I know I'm right? Judgements aren't the same as facts. Instinct is not science. I'm like any other human being, as fallible and as capable of being wrong. I only know what I believe. The evidence about Saddam having actual biological and chemical weapons, as opposed to the capability to develop them, has turned out to be wrong.”


The US and Britain sold Saddam Hussein the technology and materials Iraq needed to develop nuclear, chemical and biological weapons of mass destruction.

Reports by the US Senate's committee on banking, housing and urban affairs -- which oversees American exports policy -- reveal that the US, under the successive administrations of Ronald Reagan and George Bush Snr, sold materials including anthrax, VX nerve gas, West Nile fever germs and botulism to Iraq right up until March 1992, as well as germs similar to tuberculosis and pneumonia. Other bacteria sold included brucella melitensis, which damages major organs, and clostridium perfringens, which causes gas gangrene.

Classified US Defence Department documents also seen by the Sunday Herald show that Britain sold Iraq the drug pralidoxine, an antidote to nerve gas, in March 1992, after the end of the Gulf war. Pralidoxine can be reverse engineered to create nerve gas.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Tony Blair on WMD..

September 24, 2002 – House of Commons
“The Joint Intelligence Committee concludes that Iraq has chemical and biological weapons, that Saddam has continued to produce them, that he has existing and active military plans for the use of chemical and biological weapons, which could be activated within 45 minutes, including against his own Shia population, and that he is actively trying to acquire nuclear weapons capability.”

September 28, 2004 – Speech to the Labour Party
“Do I know I'm right? Judgements aren't the same as facts. Instinct is not science. I'm like any other human being, as fallible and as capable of being wrong. I only know what I believe. The evidence about Saddam having actual biological and chemical weapons, as opposed to the capability to develop them, has turned out to be wrong.”


The US and Britain sold Saddam Hussein the technology and materials Iraq needed to develop nuclear, chemical and biological weapons of mass destruction.

Reports by the US Senate's committee on banking, housing and urban affairs -- which oversees American exports policy -- reveal that the US, under the successive administrations of Ronald Reagan and George Bush Snr, sold materials including anthrax, VX nerve gas, West Nile fever germs and botulism to Iraq right up until March 1992, as well as germs similar to tuberculosis and pneumonia. Other bacteria sold included brucella melitensis, which damages major organs, and clostridium perfringens, which causes gas gangrene.

Classified US Defence Department documents also seen by the Sunday Herald show that Britain sold Iraq the drug pralidoxine, an antidote to nerve gas, in March 1992, after the end of the Gulf war. Pralidoxine can be reverse engineered to create nerve gas.

 

[Goldstone76]

A Department of Justice memo instructs local police, under a program named "communities against terrorism," to consider anyone who harbors "conspiracy theories" about 9/11 to be a potential terrorist.
The memo thus adds 9/11-official-story skeptics to a growing list of targets described by federal law enforcement to be security threats, such as those who express "libertarian philosophies," "Second Amendment-oriented views," interest in "self-sufficiency," "fears of Big Brother or big government," and "Declarations of Constitutional rights and civil liberties."
A newly released national poll shows that 48 percent of Americans either have some doubts about the official account of 9/11, or do not believe it at all.
The FBI memo entitled "Potential Indicators of Terrorist Activities Related to Sleepers" says that people who should be 'considered suspicious' of possible involvement in "terrorist activity" include those who hold the "attitude" described as " Conspiracy theories about Westerners." The memo continues: "e.g. (sic) the CIA arranged for 9/11 to legitimize the invasion of foreign lands."


Read more: http://digitaljournal.com/article/358624#ixzz2j1yRD1dZ

 

[Guinness Boy]

Tony Blair on WMD..

September 24, 2002 – House of Commons
“The Joint Intelligence Committee concludes that Iraq has chemical and biological weapons, that Saddam has continued to produce them, that he has existing and active military plans for the use of chemical and biological weapons, which could be activated within 45 minutes, including against his own Shia population, and that he is actively trying to acquire nuclear weapons capability.”

September 28, 2004 – Speech to the Labour Party
“Do I know I'm right? Judgements aren't the same as facts. Instinct is not science. I'm like any other human being, as fallible and as capable of being wrong. I only know what I believe. The evidence about Saddam having actual biological and chemical weapons, as opposed to the capability to develop them, has turned out to be wrong.”

Most people accept that politicians stretch the truth to suit their own agenda. The '45 minutes' thing has been totally discredited IN THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA. Not to mention by his political opponents. That's not nearly the same thing as there being a giant conspiracy over 9/11. It's not even in the same ball park. Just as you demonstrated on the Brand v Paxman thread you are incapable of differentiating between cause and correlation and worse at using very small pieces of accepted information to prove a wider theory that is actually full of holes.

The US and Britain sold Saddam Hussein the technology and materials Iraq needed to develop nuclear, chemical and biological weapons of mass destruction.

Reports by the US Senate's committee on banking, housing and urban affairs -- which oversees American exports policy -- reveal that the US, under the successive administrations of Ronald Reagan and George Bush Snr, sold materials including anthrax, VX nerve gas, West Nile fever germs and botulism to Iraq right up until March 1992, as well as germs similar to tuberculosis and pneumonia. Other bacteria sold included brucella melitensis, which damages major organs, and clostridium perfringens, which causes gas gangrene.

Says where? I presume you have the ACTUAL documents and not just a link to a website that reports someone as having seen them?

Classified US Defence Department documents also seen by the Sunday Herald show that Britain sold Iraq the drug pralidoxine, an antidote to nerve gas, in March 1992, after the end of the Gulf war. Pralidoxine can be reverse engineered to create nerve gas.

Why would you sell them something that COULD be reverse engineered when you could just sell them the actual stuff? It's like me ordering water instead of ice in my G&T then walking in to a freezer to drink it. Stuff can be made out of stuff. No shit Sherlock. And you call us Sheeple...

 

[Goldstone76]

Most people accept that politicians stretch the truth to suit their own agenda. The '45 minutes' thing has been totally discredited IN THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA. Not to mention by his political opponents. That's not nearly the same thing as there being a giant conspiracy over 9/11. It's not even in the same ball park. Just as you demonstrated on the Brand v Paxman thread you are incapable of differentiating between cause and correlation and worse at using very small pieces of accepted information to prove a wider theory that is actually full of holes.

The point is that Tony Blair and by extension the government of the day will stretch the truth (even into untruth) to suit their agendas. Blair's mind was changed on the insistence of Bush and against advice given to him by his own advisers (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tony-blair-and-iraq-the-damning-evidence-8563133.html)

Says where? I presume you have the ACTUAL documents and not just a link to a website that reports someone as having seen them?

Senator Riegle also implicates the U.S. Department of Commerce as well as the American Type Culture Collection in the shipment of biological research samples to Iraq:
"Records available from the supplier for the period from 1985 until the present show that during this time, pathogenic (meaning "disease producing"), toxigenic (meaning "poisonous"), and other biological research materials were exported to Iraq pursuant to application and licensing by the U.S. Department of Commerce. Records prior to 1985 were not available, according to the supplier. These exported biological materials were not attenuated or weakened and were capable of reproduction." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riegle_Report)

Why would you sell them something that COULD be reverse engineered when you could just sell them the actual stuff? It's like me ordering water instead of ice in my G&T then walking in to a freezer to drink it. Stuff can be made out of stuff. No shit Sherlock. And you call us Sheeple...

Great question.. Why would anyone export a subsstence that could be used as Nerve Gas? Well the USA was fearful that Iran would 'take' Iraq and so the West armed Iraq.. Simple really.. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_support_for_Iraq_during_the_Iran–Iraq_war)

And regards Brand.. well Im just saying what I feel as a reaction to others thoughts on Brand..

In Brand's words.. "Apathy is a rational reaction to a system that no longer represents, hears or addresses the vast majority of people. A system that is apathetic, in fact, to the needs of the people it was designed to serve."

And you Im guessing are happy with the world and the system?

 

[Goldstone76]

Most people accept that politicians stretch the truth to suit their own agenda. The '45 minutes' thing has been totally discredited IN THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA. Not to mention by his political opponents. That's not nearly the same thing as there being a giant conspiracy over 9/11. It's not even in the same ball park. Just as you demonstrated on the Brand v Paxman thread you are incapable of differentiating between cause and correlation and worse at using very small pieces of accepted information to prove a wider theory that is actually full of holes.

The point is that Tony Blair and by extension the government of the day will stretch the truth (even into untruth) to suit their agendas. Blair's mind was changed on the insistence of Bush and against advice given to him by his own advisers (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tony-blair-and-iraq-the-damning-evidence-8563133.html)

Says where? I presume you have the ACTUAL documents and not just a link to a website that reports someone as having seen them?

Senator Riegle also implicates the U.S. Department of Commerce as well as the American Type Culture Collection in the shipment of biological research samples to Iraq:
"Records available from the supplier for the period from 1985 until the present show that during this time, pathogenic (meaning "disease producing"), toxigenic (meaning "poisonous"), and other biological research materials were exported to Iraq pursuant to application and licensing by the U.S. Department of Commerce. Records prior to 1985 were not available, according to the supplier. These exported biological materials were not attenuated or weakened and were capable of reproduction." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riegle_Report)

Why would you sell them something that COULD be reverse engineered when you could just sell them the actual stuff? It's like me ordering water instead of ice in my G&T then walking in to a freezer to drink it. Stuff can be made out of stuff. No shit Sherlock. And you call us Sheeple...

Great question.. Why would anyone export a subsstence that could be used as Nerve Gas? Well the USA was fearful that Iran would 'take' Iraq and so the West armed Iraq.. Simple really.. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_support_for_Iraq_during_the_Iran–Iraq_war)

And regards Brand.. well Im just saying what I feel as a reaction to others thoughts on Brand..

In Brand's words.. "Apathy is a rational reaction to a system that no longer represents, hears or addresses the vast majority of people. A system that is apathetic, in fact, to the needs of the people it was designed to serve."

And you Im guessing are happy with the world and the system?

 

[Guinness Boy]

The point is that Tony Blair and by extension the government of the day will stretch the truth (even into untruth) to suit their agendas. Blair's mind was changed on the insistence of Bush and against advice given to him by his own advisers (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...e-8563133.html)

That's a link to the mainstream media who you say are not to be trusted. In fact owned by lizards or aliens or a giant mega corp that controls us all. So it can't be true. Can it?

Senator Riegle also implicates the U.S. Department of Commerce as well as the American Type Culture Collection in the shipment of biological research samples to Iraq:
"Records available from the supplier for the period from 1985 until the present show that during this time, pathogenic (meaning "disease producing"), toxigenic (meaning "poisonous"), and other biological research materials were exported to Iraq pursuant to application and licensing by the U.S. Department of Commerce. Records prior to 1985 were not available, according to the supplier. These exported biological materials were not attenuated or weakened and were capable of reproduction." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riegle_Report)

The Riegle report was in 1994 and pertained to the first Gulf War. The one that can't possibly relate to 9/11 because of the space / time continuum.

Great question.. Why would anyone export a subsstence that could be used as Nerve Gas?

That wasn't my question. My point was, if someone was in the business of wanting Nerve Gas they'd be better off making it themselves from scratch than reverse engineering something that wasn't nerve gas. So my question, reworded, is how is that evidence of anything?

 

[Lady Whistledown]

Whatever happened to Brunswick, that's a conspiracy surely?

Changed his name, I fancy

 

[One Love]

A Department of Justice memo instructs local police, under a program named "communities against terrorism," to consider anyone who harbors "conspiracy theories" about 9/11 to be a potential terrorist.
The memo thus adds 9/11-official-story skeptics to a growing list of targets described by federal law enforcement to be security threats, such as those who express "libertarian philosophies," "Second Amendment-oriented views," interest in "self-sufficiency," "fears of Big Brother or big government," and "Declarations of Constitutional rights and civil liberties."
A newly released national poll shows that 48 percent of Americans either have some doubts about the official account of 9/11, or do not believe it at all.
The FBI memo entitled "Potential Indicators of Terrorist Activities Related to Sleepers" says that people who should be 'considered suspicious' of possible involvement in "terrorist activity" include those who hold the "attitude" described as " Conspiracy theories about Westerners." The memo continues: "e.g. (sic) the CIA arranged for 9/11 to legitimize the invasion of foreign lands."


Read more: http://digitaljournal.com/article/358624#ixzz2j1yRD1dZ

Honestly are you really being serious about this?

 

[Goldstone76]

That's a link to the mainstream media who you say are not to be trusted. In fact owned by lizards or aliens or a giant mega corp that controls us all. So it can't be true. Can it?

Mainstream media does sensor dependent on who their owners/agendas are. Compare Fox News to the rest for example! Assuming you made the effort to read what the Indi was saying its an overview of Tony Blairs record on Iraq etc. etc.

The Riegle report was in 1994 and pertained to the first Gulf War. The one that can't possibly relate to 9/11 because of the space / time continuum.

Im answering your question.. "Says where? I presume you have the ACTUAL documents and not just a link to a website that reports someone as having seen them?". Iraq was supplied WMD by the USA/UK as fact. Are you saying that the US/UK didnt supply/support Iraq during the Iran/Iraq war then?

That wasn't my question. My point was, if someone was in the business of wanting Nerve Gas they'd be better off making it themselves from scratch than reverse engineering something that wasn't nerve gas. So my question, reworded, is how is that evidence of anything?

May be it was less sensitive and would raise less questions (in the longer run) if Pralidoxine was sent.

 

[Norman Potting]

Anyone on this thread read "Voodoo Histories" by David Aaronovitch? Interested to hear their views on it.

 

[Goldstone76]

Honestly are you really being serious about this?

Well yes I am. Its a publication from Columbus Ohio Division Police (in association with the Bureau Of Justice Assistance) and the link to their web link for the leaflet is here.. http://www.columbuspolice.org/Units/TEW Info/recognizing_sleepers_word2007trifold.pdf

What is really interesting is how the USA government has changed post 911 with the implementation of the Patriot Act.. less democracy and rights is the bottom line.

 

[Nibble]

Well yes I am. Its a publication from Columbus Ohio Division Police (in association with the Bureau Of Justice Assistance) and the link to their web link for the leaflet is here.. http://www.columbuspolice.org/Units/TEW Info/recognizing_sleepers_word2007trifold.pdf

What is really interesting is how the USA government has changed post 911 with the implementation of the Patriot Act.. less democracy and rights is the bottom line.

To what end?

 

[Napper]

Hills borough . Just saying