Are conspiracy theories destroying democracy?

[Goldstone76]

No one on this thread,I repeat no one had suggested that the government don't and did not lie.

And obviously people have benefited from the event.

But motive and form for dishonesty do not prove guilt.

I agree.. but if you have taken the time to watch the documentary Hubris you will possibly work out that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Tenet lied.. If a government is capable of telling lies to invade Iraq do you not suspect they are also capable of telling bigger lies.. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld etc had huge finacial interests for example.. Bush = Oil..

 

[Goldstone76]

but your reference is from a people in the establishment and supports the gist of the official version. therefore it cannot be trusted. only sources that are against the official version are to be considered trustworthy, because obviously they are indepedent, and therefore true. even if they are demonstrably false. the end.

The government cannot be trusted to tell the truth.

 

[symyjym]

Anything is possible yes. I could be wrong but so could you. Neither of us or anyone here can say or prove beyond reasonable doubt that the official version is correct or the CTs version is correct or even something in between. It could well be that Mossad set up the whole thing using Muslims as the fall guys because it does benefit Israel at the very least. There is reasonable doubt about the official version because its so full of holes. Therefore the US government should allow a full investigation (including the release of information never made available to the 9/11 commission) ideally by the UN but it wont.. If you have some time have a read of the 9/11 commission report.

If your so sure a government doesnt tell a lie to go to war then your a fool.

I've never said that governments don't lie to go to war, Others and myself has clearly stated that the war in Iraq was based on a WMD lie, that is not a Conspiracy Theory that is a Conspiracy FACT.

If you understand the word theory you would understand that a theory is something that hasn't yet been proven.

Newton, Darwin and Einstein all had theories that have since they have come up with them they have been proven as fact with hard science as evidence. In the 911 case the evidence provided for the theory does not stack up.

 

[Mental Lental]

Beef or Lamb Vindaloo

timer
Prep Time: 15 mins
Total Time: 2 hrs 15 mins
Servings: 4-6

About This Recipe

"A lovely, warming, spicy curry to enjoy in the colder months of the year. I serve this up over plain, boiled potatoes, or a rice pilaf."
Ingredients

Marinade
3 tablespoons coriander
1 tablespoon cumin
6 cloves
2 inches cinnamon sticks
1 teaspoon black peppercorns
2 teaspoons fenugreek seeds
1 teaspoon fennel seed
4 -6 dried chilies, soaked
8 cloves garlic
1 large onion
1 inch fresh ginger
1/4 cup white vinegar
Meat
2 lbs beef chuck steaks or 2 lbs lamb shoulder, trimmed and cut into 2 inch cubes
3 tablespoons ghee or 3 tablespoons butter
2 bay leaves
2 cups beef stock

Directions

Grind coriander, cumin, cloves, cinnamon, peppercorns, fenugreek and fennel to a fine powder.
Grind chilies with garlic, onion and ginger to make a paste.
Mix spice powder with vinegar.
Place meat in container and rub well with spice mixture.
Pour chili paste over meat and marinate for atleast 3 hours, or overnight.

Page 2 of 2Beef or Lamb Vindaloo (cont.)
Directions

Over high heat, heat ghee or butter in large heavy-bottom Dutch oven and fry meat until deeply colored.
Add bay leaves and stock and bring to a boil.
Reduce heat and simmer about 1 1/2- 2 hours, or until meat is very tender.
Season to taste.

 

[colinz]

I would be interested to hear your opinion on this video. Have a listen to what explosives loader Tom Sullivan has to say.. of course I guess you may suggest that Tom is a nutter and doesnt know what hes talking about.. Lets see.. let me know..

Will have to watch that video in a few days.
As for the previous one, I should have said high rise buildings. That collapse video basically showed a burnt out shell of a building a few stories high. Can't really compare it to2 sky scrapers 80 plus floors high, full of office furniture etc. In a built up area.

 

[The Truth]

Beef or Lamb Vindaloo

timer
Prep Time: 15 mins
Total Time: 2 hrs 15 mins
Servings: 4-6

About This Recipe

"A lovely, warming, spicy curry to enjoy in the colder months of the year. I serve this up over plain, boiled potatoes, or a rice pilaf."
Ingredients

Marinade
3 tablespoons coriander
1 tablespoon cumin
.

Do these posts eventually get funny? It's not the first cooking post you've done on this thread.
Are you going to keep doing this until someone posts a smiley for you?
Considering you've only posted 775 times in the last 10 years, it is slightly odd!?
Defiantly not funny though.

 

[beorhthelm]

Do these posts eventually get funny? It's not the first cooking post you've done on this thread.
Are you going to keep doing this until someone posts a smiley for you?
Considering you've only posted 775 times in the last 10 years, it is slightly odd!?
Defiantly not funny though.

yeah, its amusing, if you thought more freely you'd maybe get the joke.

 

[Nibble]

I don't care, just stop pestering me with it!!

You, hybrid and to a lesser degree, goldstone are thoroughly unpleasant people.

 

[Goldstone76]

You, hybrid and to a lesser degree, goldstone are thoroughly unpleasant people.

I could never judge anyone like you. Dont you have anything constructive to say?

When we are judging everything, we are learning nothing. ~ Steve Maraboli

 

[The Truth]

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/07/14/whatabout7/

'Additionally, it turned out that the anti-conspiracy people were not only hostile, but fanatically attached to their own conspiracy theories as well. According to them, their own theory of 9/11 – a conspiracy theory holding that 19 Arabs, none of whom could fly planes with any proficiency, pulled off the crime of the century under the direction of a guy on dialysis in a cave in Afghanistan – was indisputably true.'

 

[Birdie Boy]

I like the last line!

"No wonder the anti-conspiracy people are sounding more and more like a bunch of hostile, paranoid cranks."

 

[readingstockport]

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/07/14/whatabout7/

'Additionally, it turned out that the anti-conspiracy people were not only hostile, but fanatically attached to their own conspiracy theories as well. According to them, their own theory of 9/11 – a conspiracy theory holding that 19 Arabs, none of whom could fly planes with any proficiency, pulled off the crime of the century under the direction of a guy on dialysis in a cave in Afghanistan – was indisputably true.'

At last, we see The Truth in person.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/slowwitted-conspiracy-theorist-convinced-governmen,34749/

Incidentally, do you fly truth? Do you know how easy it is to fly? It's the taking off and landing that is the tricky part, actually flying is totally straightforward I assure you.

But don't let someone who actually knows about flying divert you from your tin foil wearing paranoia.


And how utterly unsurprising to find a wingnut hate site http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veterans_Today misrepresenting scientific research. I heard an interview with the author of the report on radio 4 last week and I can assure he does not beleive what your wingnut lie site claims. In fact he was laughing live on radio at how stupid the ct'ers are.

 

[dougdeep]

He bounces more than Pamela Anderson

 

[Mellotron]

When we are judging everything, we are learning nothing. ~ Steve Maraboli

 

[Leighgull]

I've never said that governments don't lie to go to war, Others and myself has clearly stated that the war in Iraq was based on a WMD lie, that is not a Conspiracy Theory that is a Conspiracy FACT.
.

The WMD lie? Are you sure it was a lie or simply an incorrect BELIEF?. From the UK perspective Blair and Campbell have asked repeatedly for someone, anyone to show a lie in any of the build up to war. So. There's your challenge. You have to point out the lie. I don't mean something that was shown later to have been factually inaccurate but a deliberate untruth uttered by the coalition of the willing leadership.

The case for war was flimsy in the extreme, illogical and poorly thought through but, evidentially, was not based on lies. If it were I would back all of the buggers being hauled in front of The Hague.

The Iraq enquiry in the UK was unable to show any of these alleged lies, they showed an over reliance on sensationalist defector information, outdated intelligence and clumsy evidence gathering but no outright lies.

Sorry to piss on your chips but, thems the facts.

 

[pastafarian]

And how utterly unsurprising to find a wingnut hate site http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veterans_Today misrepresenting scientific research. I heard an interview with the author of the report on radio 4 last week and I can assure he does not beleive what your wingnut lie site claims. In fact he was laughing live on radio at how stupid the ct'ers are.

Indeed,its a million miles away from what the report said,all the wingnut sites then run with the same nonsense with wingnut supporters then quoting them,with none of them seeming to do the bleeding obvious thing first and read the report.

Here is a piece on how they change it to suit their agenda(with link to original report)

http://cartesianproduct.wordpress.com/2013/07/15/what-presstv-doesnt-tell-you/

The same authors have another report

Dead and Alive:Beliefs in Contradictory Conspiracy Theories where they say

"Over time, the view of the world as a place ruled by conspiracies can lead to conspiracy becoming the default explanation for any given event – a unitary, closed-off worldview in which beliefs come together in a mutually supportive network known as a monological belief system"

and

"Thus, we predict that for someone with a conspiracist worldview, nearly any theory that assumes deception by officialdom in its explanation for a world event and stands in opposition to the “mainstream” account will garner some agreement. This relationship may hold even to the point that people who believe in a world governed by conspiracy are likely to endorse contradictory conspiracy theories about the same topic. Just as Adorno (1954) found positive correlations in endorsement of contradictory stereotypes, we expect to see positive relationships between endorsement of contradictory conspiracy theories about the same event. For example,the more that participants believe that a person at the centre of a death-related conspiracy theory,such as Princess Diana or Osama Bin Laden, is still alive, the more they also tend to believe that the same person was killed, so long as the alleged manner of death involves deception by officialdom."

 

[symyjym]

The WMD lie? Are you sure it was a lie or simply an incorrect BELIEF?. From the UK perspective Blair and Campbell have asked repeatedly for someone, anyone to show a lie in any of the build up to war. So. There's your challenge. You have to point out the lie. I don't mean something that was shown later to have been factually inaccurate but a deliberate untruth uttered by the coalition of the willing leadership.

The case for war was flimsy in the extreme, illogical and poorly thought through but, evidentially, was not based on lies. If it were I would back all of the buggers being hauled in front of The Hague.

The Iraq enquiry in the UK was unable to show any of these alleged lies, they showed an over reliance on sensationalist defector information, outdated intelligence and clumsy evidence gathering but no outright lies.

Sorry to piss on your chips but, thems the facts.

Don’t bring me into this again.
It was a response to Goldstone76 saying ”If you’re so sure a government doesn’t tell a lie to go to war then you’re a fool.”

His context was in a reply to me and he was assuming that because I don’t believe the 911 conspiracy theories that I therefore believe that governments never lie and always tell the truth.

I used the WMD comment to show that I balance things up on a case by case basis and I don’t have blind faith in governments as he accused me of.

I was basing my belief on Hans Blix the UN's former chief weapons inspector saying before we went to war that he had found no smoking gun or evidence of WMD in Iraq.

He was on the news everyday for months before we went to war saying this, and if the governments can’t trust a UN chief weapons inspector, what’s the point of having one?

I believed what Hans Blix was saying at the time in 2003, not in hindsight, or any after war report.

I have however found a recent story due to being picked up on what I said for you to view.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-10770239

 

[Guinness Boy]

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/07/14/whatabout7/

'Additionally, it turned out that the anti-conspiracy people were not only hostile, but fanatically attached to their own conspiracy theories as well. According to them, their own theory of 9/11 – a conspiracy theory holding that 19 Arabs, none of whom could fly planes with any proficiency, pulled off the crime of the century under the direction of a guy on dialysis in a cave in Afghanistan – was indisputably true.'

At last, we see The Truth in person.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/slowwitted-conspiracy-theorist-convinced-governmen,34749/

Incidentally, do you fly truth? Do you know how easy it is to fly? It's the taking off and landing that is the tricky part, actually flying is totally straightforward I assure you.

But don't let someone who actually knows about flying divert you from your tin foil wearing paranoia.


And how utterly unsurprising to find a wingnut hate site http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veterans_Today misrepresenting scientific research. I heard an interview with the author of the report on radio 4 last week and I can assure he does not beleive what your wingnut lie site claims. In fact he was laughing live on radio at how stupid the ct'ers are.

Odd how a bloke who claims he's not a bigot is happy to quote a site absolutely teaming with them when it suits him.