[Albion] The Chelsea wins.....and reactions to them.

nickjhs · Monday at 8:16 AM

Commander said:
This is a fair point. But a week later when the dust has settled, people should be able to see the bigger picture. But many can't.

Exactly. Probably because they had so many sleepless nights changing the bed sheets they can't think straight

pigmanovich · Monday at 8:48 AM

Guinness Boy said:
Much easier to say from Australia than the train home from Nottingham.

Well, some of us WERE on that train and didn’t have a meltdown. But each to his own.

pigmanovich · Monday at 8:58 AM

jackalbion said:
People say stuff in the raw emotion of a a few hours of a defeat, especially when people have got up at 5am and spent probably about £200 on their day, doesn’t mean they are bad fans! I think people can change their mind a few hours later after that, and not be accused of being bedwetters. I stand by my views on all the subjects, I think there were good reasons to be concerned after that game (especially when he said he’d do it again), he had to show he had the minerals to react that defeat, and he did. Great some people thought he was fine anyway, great, I’ve been relentless in backing the manager up to that point, and that he had to be given time, but a 7-0 defeat is probably a fair reasoning to cast serious doubt. Some people have not liked him since he arrived and that is unfair, but if people are getting het up because some people got upset after our worst defeat since 1958, then IMO, they aren’t accepting that people have very different raw emotions when it comes to football.

I didn’t call anyone on here “a bad fan” at any point in this saga - but I did accuse people of overreaction, and your point seems to be, well of course people overreact, they can be quite emotional after a loss, but they’re within their rights to walk it back shortly thereafter. Which is a long winded way of agreeing that yes, people overreacted.

Anyway, I only spent £100 that day so must be why I didn’t lose my head.

jackalbion · Monday at 8:58 AM

jcdenton08 said:
Stop doubling down. The overreaction was pathetic and not the behaviour of someone who SUPPORTS the club. Loads of the posts were actually embarrassing to read.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But by offering an opinion you waive the right not to be mocked if it’s a ridiculous one.

Well it is the actions of someone who SUPPORTS the club because I’ve SUPPORTED the club at 56 different games this season. So let’s not play the who’s the better supporter game, because we can all point fingers there :lolol:

jackalbion · Monday at 8:59 AM

pigmanovich said:
I didn’t call anyone on here “a bad fan” at any point in this saga - but I did accuse people of overreaction, and your point seems to be, well of course people overreact, they can be quite emotional after a loss, but they’re within their rights to walk it back shortly thereafter. Which is a long winded way of agreeing that yes, people overreacted.

Anyway, I only spent £100 that day so must be why I didn’t lose my head.

To be fair it wasn’t really aimed at you!

Harry Wilson's tackle · Monday at 9:14 AM

jackalbion said:
Calling everyone bedwetters for having fair doubts over the manager, is a bit tedious and boring, we get it you always back the manager, pat on the back well done you. Too much holier than thou stuff though, people were rightly upset at that performance, and it doesn’t make you a better fan than someone who wasn’t. A lot of people who are sensible Brighton fans, who have a reasonable view of the team, had a lot of doubts after the Forest game, and that’s fair. The last two games have been fantastic, but there has also been some very dodgy moments this season. I don’t think it’s unfair to have shifting emotions, everyone watches football and gets emotional about it, and this boring topic about “bedwetters” goes round and round. Anyway I hope all these super fans who always back the manager no matter what etc, will be down at Culver Road on Tuesday to watch the U21 against Whitehawk, to show their super fan credentials off.

Fair doubts? Fair doubts?
I'm entirely at home with fair doubts.
I have them myself. But....

I remember an Anglican archbishop who had fair doubts about the existence of God.

But he was not advocating burning the churches, and giving the Devil a chance.

:lolol:

Pretending that people were not coming out with absurd comments, and then bitching about this thread is what's tedious and boring :shrug:

Guinness Boy · Monday at 9:16 AM

I think it's interesting that these sorts of divisive threads only really appear under two of our most recent coaches, Potter and Hurzeler. They didn't so much for Hughton or RDZ.

And, IMO, that's because CH and RDZ won things and also left when the time was right. Hughton got us promoted and that kept his stock high with our fans in the first difficult Premier League season. However, by the end of the second season we pretty much all agreed it was time to go, having nearly been relegated playing terrible football. RDZ got us to Europe and won a Europa League group. That carried a lot with fans when things started to go wrong but, again, by the end, it was obvious he couldn't work with our senior leadership. The fans on the 'terraces' see these two as winners.

On the other hand, developing players, making small increments, having good data and over achieving compared to budget are absolutely things that go down well with the top brass but they're not exactly things you can wave in the face of away fans.

Match going fans will always have slightly different priorities and reactions as a whole to club management. And it's not entitlement. Whether you're the most conspiracy believing of Arsenal fans or simply follow Barnsley or Huddersfield and hope for a promotion or two, the coaches who achieve will always be more popular than those who don't.

Those groups are not absolute BTW. @pigmanovich had a more rational reaction to Forest than many, @dazzer6666 is another who goes home and away but often sees and presents the long view very well. And I'm sure there are a few who only watch on the internet who totally lost their shit - every club has them.

But I do worry that all the time we're around mid-table there'll be a group of fans seizing on good results and another group seizing on the bad ones and creating tedious "I'm a better fan than you" arguments because, if you're honest, there's nothing to really either celebrate or condemn about finishing 9th / 10th / 11th any more. For us it's par.

jackalbion · Monday at 9:21 AM

nickjhs said:
I haven't seen many people blinded by his brilliance mainly it's calm the f*** down the guy is inexperienced and yet doing a bloody good job considering his inexperience and that of much of his squad. The simple fact is Mitoma was not back to his best at the start of the season but he has gradually got his form back after such a long injury and has been bloody brilliant the last few games. would love you to show how many "staunch FH fans on this thread saying Mitoma isn’t as good as he was and we should take the oil money" I am willing to stick my neck out and say it was a tiny fraction compared to you lot who were demanding a change in manager.

We also won last week, not sure why there’s this whole, “F*ck you all! I was right you’re all pathetic!” we should all be happy we won the game, and that’s why we are, seems still providing a negative despite an incredibly positive week for the club.

It’s quite clear something happened in the week after the Forest game, FH set fire to his plans, and think there was probably a lot of home truths between manager and players. Unless FH is a bedwetter for thinking his own tactics were shit? It’s quite clear they identified something wasn’t working and I’m glad they did, the worry was his reaction to some defeats/poor results, haven’t been immediate, something RDZ was praised for. He’s more than proved to me that he is capable of that. On the Mitoma point it proves that literally everyone on here has one shite opinion, and I’m sure I could find a shite opinion somewhere on here from every single account that could be proved to be a load of pathetic over reactive nonsense.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Monday at 9:23 AM

jackalbion said:
People say stuff in the raw emotion of a a few hours of a defeat, especially when people have got up at 5am and spent probably about £200 on their day, doesn’t mean they are bad fans! I think people can change their mind a few hours later after that, and not be accused of being bedwetters. I stand by my views on all the subjects, I think there were good reasons to be concerned after that game (especially when he said he’d do it again), he had to show he had the minerals to react that defeat, and he did. Great some people thought he was fine anyway, great, I’ve been relentless in backing the manager up to that point, and that he had to be given time, but a 7-0 defeat is probably a fair reasoning to cast serious doubt. Some people have not liked him since he arrived and that is unfair, but if people are getting het up because some people got upset after our worst defeat since 1958, then IMO, they aren’t accepting that people have very different raw emotions when it comes to football.

Nobody said anyone is a bad fan.

Some of the reactions on this thread are hilarious.
Setting the thread title aside, which was obviously provocative, what was the first post?
Who was called a bad fan?
What, other than celebrating the win, could you infer?
There was no criticism of anyone other than the implied criticism to come of those who wanted to persist with their bedwetting after we dumped Chelsea out of the cup
And the betwetters came....
Fancy that!

A cynic might think that you feel it is more important to defend bedwetting
than it is to set aside 'fair doubts' for a while and enjoy the cup win (for that is what it was).
But I'm not a cynic, and I'm sure you're enjoying the two fine wins :thumbsup:

Harry Wilson's tackle · Monday at 9:31 AM

Guinness Boy said:
I think it's interesting that these sorts of divisive threads only really appear under two of our most recent coaches, Potter and Hurzeler. They didn't so much for Hughton or RDZ.

And, IMO, that's because CH and RDZ won things and also left when the time was right. Hughton got us promoted and that kept his stock high with our fans in the first difficult Premier League season. However, by the end of the second season we pretty much all agreed it was time to go, having nearly been relegated playing terrible football. RDZ got us to Europe and won a Europa League group. That carried a lot with fans when things started to go wrong but, again, by the end, it was obvious he couldn't work with our senior leadership. The fans on the 'terraces' see these two as winners.

On the other hand, developing players, making small increments, having good data and over achieving compared to budget are absolutely things that go down well with the top brass but they're not exactly things you can wave in the face of away fans.

Match going fans will always have slightly different priorities and reactions as a whole to club management. And it's not entitlement. Whether you're the most conspiracy believing of Arsenal fans or simply follow Barnsley or Huddersfield and hope for a promotion or two, the coaches who achieve will always be more popular than those who don't.

Those groups are not absolute BTW. @pigmanovich had a more rational reaction to Forest than many, @dazzer6666 is another who goes home and away but often sees and presents the long view very well. And I'm sure there are a few who only watch on the internet who totally lost their shit - every club has them.

But I do worry that all the time we're around mid-table there'll be a group of fans seizing on good results and another group seizing on the bad ones and creating tedious "I'm a better fan than you" arguments because, if you're honest, there's nothing to really either celebrate or condemn about finishing 9th / 10th / 11th any more. For us it's par.

Your post was good up to there, and then sadly went to bollocks.

Why are you getting so peevish now you have ceased to be 'only at home'?

I think it's you that's getting 'better fan than you' syndrome
The only people invoking that trope are the Fab Out contingent, who can't bring themselves to say Fab out after the last 2 wins,
But will no doubt be back on track, saying 'Fab Out' after the next defeat. :shrug:

Interesting that you explain the reasoning, though:
Finishing 9th 10th or 11th is 'par;'.
Wow.
That would be our equal second, 4th and 5th best finishes in the club's history.
Par.
I was not expecting you to become entitled.

I think this is a room I need to leave.
I'm beginning to taste a little sick in my mouth :down:

Guinness Boy · Monday at 9:40 AM

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
Your post was good up to there, and then sadly went to bollocks.

Why are you getting so peevish now you have ceased to be 'only at home'?

I think it's you that's getting 'better fan than you' syndrome
The only people invoking that trope are the Fab Out contingent, who can't bring themselves to say Fab out after the last 2 wins,
But will no doubt be back on track, saying 'Fab Out' after the next defeat.

Interesting that you explain the reasoning, though:
Finishing 9th 10th or 11th is 'par;'.
Wow.
That would be our equal second, 4th and 5th best finishes in the club's history.
Par.
I was not expecting you to become entitled.

I think this is a room I need to leave.
I'm beginning to taste a little sick in my mouth

Our last three finishes have been 9th, 6th and 11th and we are currently 10th. It's the new normal. Until it isn't.

I respect a lot of your posts on here in general but, for me, this is an "olive branch" thread.

dazzer6666 · Monday at 9:44 AM

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
Your post was good up to there, and then sadly went to bollocks.

Why are you getting so peevish now you have ceased to be 'only at home'?

I think it's you that's getting 'better fan than you' syndrome
The only people invoking that trope are the Fab Out contingent, who can't bring themselves to say Fab out after the last 2 wins,
But will no doubt be back on track, saying 'Fab Out' after the next defeat.

Interesting that you explain the reasoning, though:
Finishing 9th 10th or 11th is 'par;'.
Wow.
That would be our equal second, 4th and 5th best finishes in the club's history.
Par.
I was not expecting you to become entitled.

I think this is a room I need to leave.
I'm beginning to taste a little sick in my mouth

TBF Tony has repeatedly said the aim is to be an established top 10 club, so that really means we need to finish there more often than not. Saying 10th is ‘par’ is bang on now imo - or, if you prefer corporate BS - ‘performance in line with expectations’.

It’s your room, BTW :laugh:

jackalbion · Monday at 9:54 AM

nickjhs said:
But the difference between then and now, the club is in a far better position than ever before. Sure we took a thumping but seeing how the club is in such good hands it was clearly an anomaly and to get all bent out of shape was just daft. Not forgetting of course the Fab out nonsense started way before Forest.

You've highlighted the difference between now and then, the club is now a completely different beast to then. It doesn't help to compare to back in the day, when we're talking about the then and now. In theory we can never be unhappy until we're 90th in the football league as per our lowest point. I think @El Presidente's comparison of 14th highest budget is a much much better barometer.

Greg Bobkin · Monday at 9:58 AM

Bizarrely, according to different posters, people like me (who, full disclosure, takes every game at a time, never gets too high or low after a result – partly because caring for a currently acutely unwell Bobkin Jnr kinda takes priority over football and puts everything in life in perspective – and expects a defeat every time so anything else is a bonus) has been labeled both a 'so-called' fan, part of the 'prawn sandwich brigade' and also a 'super' fan. I wish they would make their minds up :lolol:

Anyway, having called out posters on this board a couple of weeks ago for turning on other fans over a game of facking football, I'm in danger of doing the same myself, so I'm bailing out of this particular conversations and will try to do so in other threads. Personally I hate the terms but, for every 'bet-wetter', there appears to be a 'licker'. Maybe, just maybe, there are just a load of fans who all love the Albion (but not the manager), but have a different way of processing games or results.

Call it 'woke' or whatever, but maybe we should ALL be a bit more mindful of everyone else and their opinions and let them do life the way they see fit.

Greg Bobkin · Monday at 10:01 AM

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
Your post was good up to there, and then sadly went to bollocks.

Why are you getting so peevish now you have ceased to be 'only at home'?

I think it's you that's getting 'better fan than you' syndrome
The only people invoking that trope are the Fab Out contingent, who can't bring themselves to say Fab out after the last 2 wins,
But will no doubt be back on track, saying 'Fab Out' after the next defeat.

Interesting that you explain the reasoning, though:
Finishing 9th 10th or 11th is 'par;'.
Wow.
That would be our equal second, 4th and 5th best finishes in the club's history.
Par.
I was not expecting you to become entitled.

I think this is a room I need to leave.
I'm beginning to taste a little sick in my mouth

Given your (in)famous ignore list, I'm surprised anyone was able to respond :lolol:

jackalbion · Monday at 10:05 AM

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
Nobody said anyone is a bad fan.

Some of the reactions on this thread are hilarious.
Setting the thread title aside, which was obviously provocative, what was the first post?
Who was called a bad fan?
What, other than celebrating the win, could you infer?
There was no criticism of anyone other than the implied criticism to come of those who wanted to persist with their bedwetting after we dumped Chelsea out of the cup
And the betwetters came....
Fancy that!

A cynic might think that you feel it is more important to defend bedwetting
than it is to set aside 'fair doubts' for a while and enjoy the cup win (for that is what it was).
But I'm not a cynic, and I'm sure you're enjoying the two fine wins

It's implication from many on here, considering I haven't posted on this thread for almost a week and a half since it started, I just found it baffling people were still going on.

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
Your post was good up to there, and then sadly went to bollocks.

Why are you getting so peevish now you have ceased to be 'only at home'?

I think it's you that's getting 'better fan than you' syndrome
The only people invoking that trope are the Fab Out contingent, who can't bring themselves to say Fab out after the last 2 wins,
But will no doubt be back on track, saying 'Fab Out' after the next defeat.

Interesting that you explain the reasoning, though:
Finishing 9th 10th or 11th is 'par;'.
Wow.
That would be our equal second, 4th and 5th best finishes in the club's history.
Par.
I was not expecting you to become entitled.

I think this is a room I need to leave.
I'm beginning to taste a little sick in my mouth

This slight obsession with the 'Fab Out' crowd, what do you want them to do, still post they think the manager is shithouse and hound him out after we've won two games? Obviously not, they're happy we won, because they want what is best for the club. Are you just happy we won so you can prove to everyone how they were wrong?

As for this, then you clearly disagree with what the club says. History doesn't matter, on par for our budget is 14th or so, I'd say in that second group outside of Europe is probably about on Par. You can't call people entitled for being happy with a new normal. We aren't the same club as in 2007, we are an semi established premier league side, expectations, rightly will rise.

These threads about how people are pathetic are a bit tedious, I could make a thread every single week how I think early leavers are pathetic, or people who can't be bothered with evening games, because of a possibility a train MIGHT be late, but I don't it doesn't bother me that much. My point is we can all point fingers etc, but people will ultimately have their opinion and change it.

JetsetJimbo · Monday at 10:10 AM

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
Nobody said anyone is a bad fan.

You sure about that? I mean this is literally quoted on the same page of comments as you saying "nobody said anyone is a bad fan".

I suppose technically you could argue that he's not calling people bad fans, but saying they're not fans at all. But that's splitting hairs, isn't it?

Reddleman · Monday at 10:12 AM

jackalbion said:
We also won last week, not sure why there’s this whole, “F*ck you all! I was right you’re all pathetic!” we should all be happy we won the game, and that’s why we are, seems still providing a negative despite an incredibly positive week for the club.

It’s quite clear something happened in the week after the Forest game, FH set fire to his plans, and think there was probably a lot of home truths between manager and players. Unless FH is a bedwetter for thinking his own tactics were shit? It’s quite clear they identified something wasn’t working and I’m glad they did, the worry was his reaction to some defeats/poor results, haven’t been immediate, something RDZ was praised for. He’s more than proved to me that he is capable of that. On the Mitoma point it proves that literally everyone on here has one shite opinion, and I’m sure I could find a shite opinion somewhere on here from every single account that could be proved to be a load of pathetic over reactive nonsense.

Your point on Mitoma is absolutely spot on. There’s some very prominent posters on this thread pointing out to others how poor their opinions are.

It’s a far worse take to call for Mitoma to be sold for Saudi money right at the end of the January transfer window than it is to think we might need a change of manager after a poor run and the worse defeat in 65 years.

Some people could really do with some self awareness.

The Optimist · Monday at 10:12 AM

Guinness Boy said:
I think it's interesting that these sorts of divisive threads only really appear under two of our most recent coaches, Potter and Hurzeler. They didn't so much for Hughton or RDZ.

And, IMO, that's because CH and RDZ won things and also left when the time was right. Hughton got us promoted and that kept his stock high with our fans in the first difficult Premier League season. However, by the end of the second season we pretty much all agreed it was time to go, having nearly been relegated playing terrible football. RDZ got us to Europe and won a Europa League group. That carried a lot with fans when things started to go wrong but, again, by the end, it was obvious he couldn't work with our senior leadership. The fans on the 'terraces' see these two as winners.

On the other hand, developing players, making small increments, having good data and over achieving compared to budget are absolutely things that go down well with the top brass but they're not exactly things you can wave in the face of away fans.

Match going fans will always have slightly different priorities and reactions as a whole to club management. And it's not entitlement. Whether you're the most conspiracy believing of Arsenal fans or simply follow Barnsley or Huddersfield and hope for a promotion or two, the coaches who achieve will always be more popular than those who don't.

Those groups are not absolute BTW. @pigmanovich had a more rational reaction to Forest than many, @dazzer6666 is another who goes home and away but often sees and presents the long view very well. And I'm sure there are a few who only watch on the internet who totally lost their shit - every club has them.

But I do worry that all the time we're around mid-table there'll be a group of fans seizing on good results and another group seizing on the bad ones and creating tedious "I'm a better fan than you" arguments because, if you're honest, there's nothing to really either celebrate or condemn about finishing 9th / 10th / 11th any more. For us it's par.

I also think it’s interesting why certain coaches get this in/out stuff more than others. I’m not sure it’s just success though. We’re only 4 points behind where we were in our Europa League qualifying season. That hardly seems a significant enough drop on its own to warrant in/out polls.

jcdenton08 · Monday at 10:13 AM

JetsetJimbo said:
You sure about that? I mean this is literally quoted on the same page of comments as you saying "nobody said anyone is a bad fan".

I suppose technically you could argue that he's not calling people bad fans, but saying they're not fans at all. But that's splitting hairs, isn't it?

View attachment 196882

Ah, you’ve fallen into the old trap of not looking at the exact wording I intentionally used. Look, I even put it in capital letters and underlined it for emphasis.

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