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[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)



R

raymondo

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2017
7,382
Wiltshire
Here's an indication of the amount of military materiel sent to Ukraine from the US as of end October 2024. I haven't got time to summarize, but plenty of detail listed in there on air defense systems etc.
I know that some European countries have also supplied air defense systems, but I can't find a summary, sorry. From memory, UK, Germany, Poland, Romania, Netherlands have supplied.


Also, @crookie , I just emailed the Spanish embassy to ask if they've provided any air defense systems. I'll let you know when I get their reply 😉.
 
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Eric the meek

Eric the meek

Fiveways Wilf
NSC Patron
Aug 24, 2020
7,134
Several people have mentioned the hypocrisy of the Russians, and how infuriating it is. Just one example is their outrage at having to face long range weapons, and making various threats and vows in response, when they are flattening and laying waste to Ukrainian settlements on a daily basis.

I remember the interview with John Lough of Chatham House. He said that Putin had done a good job of scaring the west.
 




R

raymondo

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2017
7,382
Wiltshire
Eric the meek said:
Are you channeling your inner Russian? I would have labelled it 'user error' myself ;)
Click to expand...
I'm not trying to defend the latest clusterf##k of announcements and restrictions by the US...just trying to throw some light on which countries have provided how much air defense to Ukraine. I can't find a simple summary and have given up trying.
Air defense is such a key part and the allies could have done more, and faster.

Anyhow, I'm mainly waiting to hear that the Russians and North Koreans have started to fight each other...that would cheer us up.

On a more positive note, as Paul Warburg said (was it him 😬), even if Ukraine has restrictions on use of ATACMS etc, as their usage unfolds, Russia may take their eye off the ball of defending deeper bases, refineries etc, thus allowing Ukraine's long range drones to boldly go where the USS Enterprise won't!

And I'm hoping all this shenanigans buys time for Ukraine to finish development of their own long range missiles...👍

Too much blah blah from me today 🤦🏼‍♂️
Lots about Ukraine on mainstream TV news today...of course it's G20, 1000 days, Odessa strikes, Trump's arsehole son etc. It's important to have the coverage but it just highlights the West's problem of coordinating effective response,- it makes chez Raymondo a very angry household 🙁.
 


Hugo Rune

Hugo Rune

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 23, 2012
23,693
Brighton
Incredibly brave to do this:

Shklyarov condemned Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine in a now-deleted Instagram post from March 2022, declaring his opposition to “all kinds of military actions.”

Unfortunately, the famous former ballet dancer paid the price in typical Putin style. RIP.


Vladimir Shklyarov, Russian ballet star, dies aged 39 after falling from building | Ballet | The Guardian

St Petersburg’s Mariinsky Theatre says dancer was taking painkillers for an injury and fell from fifth floor
amp.theguardian.com amp.theguardian.com
 


S

Sirnormangall

Well-known member
Sep 21, 2017
3,184
raymondo said:
Here's an indication of the amount of military materiel sent to Ukraine from the US as of end October 2024. I haven't got time to summarize, but plenty of detail listed in there on air defense systems etc.
I know that some European countries have also supplied air defense systems, but I can't find a summary, sorry. From memory, UK, Germany, Poland, Romania, Netherlands have supplied.


Also, @crookie , I just emailed the Spanish embassy to ask if they've provided any air defense systems. I'll let you know when I get their reply 😉.
Click to expand...
Yes, where do countries like Spain, Italy and others sit in the league table of support for Ukraine? Unless they ramp up their support vocally and practically it simply adds weight to Trump’s view that Europe /Nato isn’t pulling its weight
 




peterward

peterward

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Nov 11, 2009
12,280




Triggaaar

Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
53,200
Goldstone
peterward said:
Click to expand...


What could possibly go wrong.

We must support Ukraine for long enough for the Russian economy to go completely tits up.

There's a lot of complaint that we haven't done enough to support Ukraine, and I've felt the same. But how long can Russia sustain this war? Have experts quietly allowed the front to remain relatively stable, whilst knowing that Russia will collapse and Ukraine will win without it costing hundreds of thousands of lives? I assume I'm being too optimistic, but Russia's economy looks shot, and they can't win a war without it.
 




Eric the meek

Eric the meek

Fiveways Wilf
NSC Patron
Aug 24, 2020
7,134
This needs expert analysis, but my untrained eye sees that Russia cannot afford to bail out the banks. So they will print the money to fund it.

Result: more money chasing the same amount of goods, means inflation. More than it is now. Perhaps a lot more.

How will this pan out for Ukraine?
Quite possibly very well.
 


D

dangull

Well-known member
Feb 24, 2013
5,161
Looking at Newsnight tonight one of the experts said a thousand lives are lost each day in this conflict, shocking if true.
We all remember the shocking images of 9/11 where around 3 thousand people died, the same number is possibly happening every 3 days at the moment.

They were also discussing a peace settlement that may involve Russia keeping the area they have control in Ukraine now. Hope that's not the case.
 






M

marlowe

Well-known member
Dec 13, 2015
4,295
GT49er said:
Change the rules? Yes, just remind me - who is the incoming President of the USA?

You can probably rule out 'can't'............................................
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It wouldn't benefit Trump in any way so it's not a rule he would ever likely change... . unless of course he thought he could cling on to power for longer than his second term by getting Melania to do a Hilary.

I'm sure Melania would be prepared to transition into the role of an "absent" president from an "absent" first lady if there was sufficient benefit to her without any of the responsibility.
 
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R

raymondo

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2017
7,382
Wiltshire
Sirnormangall said:
Yes, where do countries like Spain, Italy and others sit in the league table of support for Ukraine? Unless they ramp up their support vocally and practically it simply adds weight to Trump’s view that Europe /Nato isn’t pulling its weight
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Not very high is the answer. A lot of charts are out of date, or show commitments rather than delivery. This one may be more useful, also shows %gdp.
The one above still majors by amount of support, this next one majors by %gdp. As you'll see, the Baltics are at the top then. Like most pretty charts they are out of date, or plot commitments rather than delivery - gives an idea though.
 
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fly high

fly high

Well-known member
Aug 25, 2011
1,737
in a house
dangull said:
They were also discussing a peace settlement that may involve Russia keeping the area they have control in Ukraine now. Hope that's not the case.
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It was reported yesterday, I think on BBC, that the Russians in Brazil had turned that down, they still want all of it.
 




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