When will they actually get it in their thick heads .....

[salty seagull]

Although I agree America is wrong on this issue I never understand why we all like to presume Americans are stupid. They are so stupid that they have built their country up to be be the worlds` biggest superpower, both economically and militarily for the last 70 years. Idiots the lot of `em.

 

[El Presidente]

Stupid Norwegians, Australians, Scottish, English, Germans? All peoples who've suffered incredibly awful school shooting massacres in my lifetime. Go ahead and bash America and Americans......

In America it is a hobby though, as opposed to a one off elsewhere.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Not all American states have this mentality. Hawaii and Alaska are different to the stereotypical American attitudes. Heard many a good thing about both.

 

[dingodan]

US Gun Laws are directly responsible for these casual massacres. They reap what they sow. And will continue to do so until these ancient laws are repealed. It's really really pathetic that some f***-up can just go out and make the front page of every newspaper in the civilised world on a whim. Time to close that shit down forever.

I'm sure you are well meaning, and I am sure the certainty of your assertions is just based on how emotive and upsetting this one incident is.

But try not to lose your head. If you educate yourself you will discover that simplistic emotional reactions, which seem intuitive, actually don't always provide the best solutions, in fact they tend not to.

Gun Controls Twisted Outcome - Reason.com

England has worse crime rate than the US, says Civitas study - Telegraph

 

[beorhthelm]

... If you educate yourself you will discover that simplistic emotional reactions, which seem intuitive, actually don't always provide the best solutions, in fact they tend not to.

educate implies learning, somthing you dont do. we've done this before, and found that US has 60 times the gun crime than the UK, but you'd rather play on a side matter of burglaries and other crimes. the debate here is about guns, not general crime. find statistics school massacres in UK vs US then come back.

 

[fork me]

The answer is MORE guns. If every kid has a gun then there would be no bullying and shootings like this wouldn't occur...

I realise you're being sarcastic, but I've been on US forums today where right wing twats are seriosuly saying just that. One stating that all kindergarten teachers should be armed. What happens when a kindergarten teacher goes mad and shoots the kids. Arm the toddlers?

 

[fork me]

They do bang on about the 'right to bear arms' being in their constitution. I just wish they'd read the whole article. Or sentence, come to that.

It was only a spelling mistake anyway. It actually means they're allowed to wear short sleeves.

 

[fork me]

"Our ancestors were truly brilliant. They invented printing, but not newspapers. They invented gunpowder, but only used it in fireworks, and they invented the compass, but were careful not to use it to discover America" Mao Tse Tung.

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

I realise you're being sarcastic, but I've been on US forums today where right wing twats are seriosuly saying just that. One stating that all kindergarten teachers should be armed. What happens when a kindergarten teacher goes mad and shoots the kids. Arm the toddlers?

I realise you're being sarcastic, but surely they should be arming the foetuses? The last thing you want is some newborn baby coming out of the womb and finding itself in the middle of a hospital shooting massacre situation in progress and not being able to defend itself!

Also, anyone weighing over 23 stone should automatically be eligible for three free handguns plus ammunition.

 

[fork me]

I realise you're being sarcastic, but surely they should be arming the foetuses? The last thing you want is some newborn baby coming out of the womb and finding itself in the middle of a hospital shooting massacre situation in progress and not being able to defend itself!

Also, anyone weighing over 23 stone should automatically be eligible for three free handguns plus ammunition.

You realise the next step is arming the sperms? But they haven't got hands, How will the hold the little tiny guns they'd need?

It's all madness, I tell ya.

 

[dingodan]

educate implies learning, somthing you dont do. we've done this before, and found that US has 60 times the gun crime than the UK, but you'd rather play on a side matter of burglaries and other crimes. the debate here is about guns, not general crime. find statistics school massacres in UK vs US then come back.

So, what you are saying is, there are more school massacres in the U.S. because it is lawful to own a firearm, and, if there had been strict gun laws in the U.S. (as in the UK) then there would be less school massacres.

We have had this conversation before, and we found that correlation does not mean causation. The statistics suggest that gun laws do not prevent gun crime, and they likely increase other violent crime, including rape.

I understand your instincts that gun laws would help the situation, but the evidence suggests that you are wrong.

England has worse crime rate than the US, says Civitas study - Telegraph

Gun Controls Twisted Outcome - Reason.com

 

[Marlton & Hove Albion]

In America it is a hobby though, as opposed to a one off elsewhere.

You'll find (if you're paying attention) that I'm not defending the issue of freely available firearms in the US. I'm not suggesting for a minute that their isnt a fair share of nutters in this country. I've no argument that something isn't right given the frequency of these events.

I'm only suggesting that calling all Americans stupid is.......well stupid.

 

[Twizzle]

The number of firearms per person is far higher in countries like Canada but they have a fraction of the number of gun related deaths than the US have.

Firearm ownership doesn't cause these incidents, maybe the other causes should be looked into and hopefully more solutions found. Its far too easy for people to jump on the band wagon and simply blame gun ownership for these types of incidents.

Tosh.
I will admit that if I owned a gun and regularly carried it, you would see DEAD people.

 

[upthealbion1970]

You'll find (if you're paying attention) that I'm not defending the issue of freely available firearms in the US. I'm not suggesting for a minute that their isnt a fair share of nutters in this country. I've no argument that something isn't right given the frequency of these events.

I'm only suggesting that calling all Americans stupid is.......well stupid.

I can't put it any more simply than its my opinion, therefore as its an opinion it's neither right or wrong.

Hope you paid attention

 

[dingodan]

I can't put it any more simply than its my opinion, therefore as its an opinion it's neither right or wrong.

Hope you paid attention

In my opinion, your opinion is wrong.

That is just my opinion.

 

[Twizzle]

The number of firearms per person is far higher in countries like Canada but they have a fraction of the number of gun related deaths than the US have.

Firearm ownership doesn't cause these incidents, maybe the other causes should be looked into and hopefully more solutions found. Its far too easy for people to jump on the band wagon and simply blame gun ownership for these types of incidents.

Tosh.
I will admit that if I owned a gun and regularly carried it, you would see DEAD people.

 

[BadFish]

I'm sure you are well meaning, and I am sure the certainty of your assertions is just based on how emotive and upsetting this one incident is.

But try not to lose your head. If you educate yourself you will discover that simplistic emotional reactions, which seem intuitive, actually don't always provide the best solutions, in fact they tend not to.

Gun Controls Twisted Outcome - Reason.com

England has worse crime rate than the US, says Civitas study - Telegraph

Are you suggesting that Britians crime rate would go down if gun laws were similar to the US?

To be honest I don't see how your links disprove the idea that US gun laws are largely responsible for these kind of massacres. No one on this thread has mentioned other crime in their comments about US gun laws. All that has really been mentioned are massacres such as this one. You could include homicide as well which both of your articles state is still higher in the US.

I have just got up and may have missed the point you are trying to make entirely.

 

[upthealbion1970]

In my opinion, your opinion is wrong.

That is just my opinion.

Please enlighten me why I should give a rats arse whether you agree with me or not? This massacre highlights once again that America is a country full of idiots who have access to firearms, and idiots who continue to fight for the right to enable this to happen "because its in their constitution". More guns will mean more innocent people being shot.

 

[BadFish]

So, what you are saying is, there are more school massacres in the U.S. because it is lawful to own a firearm, and, if there had been strict gun laws in the U.S. (as in the UK) then there would be less school massacres.

We have had this conversation before, and we found that correlation does not mean causation. The statistics suggest that gun laws do not prevent gun crime, and they likely increase other violent crime, including rape.

I understand your instincts that gun laws would help the situation, but the evidence suggests that you are wrong.

England has worse crime rate than the US, says Civitas study - Telegraph

Gun Controls Twisted Outcome - Reason.com

It is interesting you choose the UK to compare the US to with your articles. I wonder what the comparison looks like with a country with a really low crime rate like Japan who have 0.6 guns per 100 people compared to 88.8% of the US.

There are many many variables that affect crime rates across the world and comparing countries based on gun laws just doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

If you look at the worlds safest countries and there guns per 100 there doesn't seem to be much correlation between gun control and crime rates.

However most people on this thread are not arguing a link between gun laws and crime. most are suggesting that tighter gun laws would stop these senseless massacres which mostly and regularly happen in the US which has gun ownership of 88.8% far higher than the rest of the world.

In an article published today, researchers at Harvard University review the evidence on the impact of the reforms, concluding, ''The National Firearms Agreement seems to have been incredibly successful in terms of lives saved.''

Certianly seems to have worked in Australia.

To be specific, we've had no gun massacres since 1996, compared with 13 such tragedies during the previous 18 years. (A massacre is defined as the killing of four or more people.) Total gun deaths have been reduced: gun homicides and gun suicides had been falling gradually before Port Arthur, but the reforms in 1996 caused that decline to accelerate dramatically. In the early 1990s, about 600 Australians were dying each year by gunfire; that figure is now fewer than 250

Read more: Port Arthur | Gun Laws | Massacre


http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/slow-erosion-of-gun-laws-presages-another-tragedy-20110427-1dwmx.html

 

[beorhthelm]

So, what you are saying is, there are more school massacres in the U.S. because it is lawful to own a firearm, and, if there had been strict gun laws in the U.S. (as in the UK) then there would be less school massacres.

i asked you to prove otherwise, and apparently you cant. yes, im suggesting that there is a strong correlation between gun ownership and public massacres, as we see all too often in these stories from the US. is it a cause? no. does it facilitate a disturbed young man to carry out certain actions? evidently it does, a similar person in a similar state of mind here in the UK simply couldn't have availed themselves of such deadly arsenal. (this says nothing about the fact that weapons are available to criminals, the chap involved wasnt some gangland solider).

just reposting the same links doesn't make them become relevent btw. they are talking about general crime. the statistics on gun crime tell us that US has 60 time more then the UK.