When will they actually get it in their thick heads .....

[BadFish]

This individual didn't own a gun, the weapons were his mothers. He didn't have a known history of mental health problems or anything else that would point to a high risk yet it still happened.

US school shooting: Profile of suspected gunman Adam Lanza
BBC News - US school shooting: Profile of suspected gunman Adam Lanza

Police are investigating whether he suffered from a personality disorder.

Lanza was "obviously not well", a relative told ABC News.

I know this doesn't count as a history of mental illness but it does suggest that something was wrong. Possibly, had he been at school these days he would have been flagged with social issues.

 

[Half Time Pies]

He had easy access to guns.

And not just access to guns but a semi-automatic rifle. I cant believe that there is a argument that a weapon designed for the battlefields of afganistan should be allowed to legally be held in a family home.

'Ms. Lanza’s fascination with guns became an important focus of attention on Saturday as investigators tried to determine what caused Mr. Lanza to carry out one of the worst massacres in the nation’s history.

Investigators have linked Ms. Lanza to five weapons: two powerful handguns, two traditional hunting rifles and a semiautomatic rifle that is similar to weapons used by troops in Afghanistan. Her son took the two handguns and the semiautomatic rifle to the school. Law enforcement officials said they believed the guns were acquired legally and were registered'.

Adam Lanza’s Mother Was a Gun Enthusiast, Friends Say - NYTimes.com

 

[beorhthelm]

Gun laws don't prevent gun crime (again). If someone wants to hurt people, they will find a way to do it. Do people go into their place of work, or into a school and start killing people because of guns? No. You are focusing on a symptom of a problem, and not the problem itself, which has more to do with culture and mental health than guns.

fact is some people have gone into work or school and start killing people with guns. no one is saying its a cause, except those making aunt sally arguments. the guns facilitate mass killing. remember the chap who went on a rampage killing loads of people with a baseball/cricket bat? no, you dont. despite all the protestations about evidence, the actual evidence is this act occured with guns, as did the last one, and the one before ad nauseum. the evidence is the US has a large probelm gun related crime, gun homicide, police shootings and mad man mass killings.

 

[brighton rock]

And not just access to guns but a semi-automatic rifle. I cant believe that there is a argument that a weapon designed for the battlefields of afganistan should be allowed to legally be held in a family home.

'Ms. Lanza’s fascination with guns became an important focus of attention on Saturday as investigators tried to determine what caused Mr. Lanza to carry out one of the worst massacres in the nation’s history.

Investigators have linked Ms. Lanza to five weapons: two powerful handguns, two traditional hunting rifles and a semiautomatic rifle that is similar to weapons used by troops in Afghanistan. Her son took the two handguns and the semiautomatic rifle to the school. Law enforcement officials said they believed the guns were acquired legally and were registered'.

Adam Lanza’s Mother Was a Gun Enthusiast, Friends Say - NYTimes.com

5 high powered gun in one home is stupidity what in earth are the yanks doing they need to get a grip and get all these battlefield guns out of circulation quickly
Sounds like even the most commen sence of the gun and ammo being locked away were not followed here

 

[Nibble]

Haven't read the whole threadbut all the US government would need to do is actually invoke the gun law as it was actually originally intended: All Americans have the right to bear arms as part of a tightly regulated militia. However the US is a big place and there are many idiots who love guns.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Police are investigating whether he suffered from a personality disorder.

Lanza was "obviously not well", a relative told ABC News.

I know this doesn't count as a history of mental illness but it does suggest that something was wrong. Possibly, had he been at school these days he would have been flagged with social issues.

But if he did, it wasn't known. Someone earlier was making the comparison to the UK controls and one aspect was that they consult a Dr to check if there is a history of mental health problems, if they had done this check on this individual (had he been looking to buy weapons) there is a very good chance that he would still have been cleared to purchase the weapons.

 

[brighton rock]

Trouble was they were his mums 5 guns not his
In some states in America when you open a bank account you get a free gun and ammo can be brought from a supermarket 1000 of rounds at a time

 

[brightn'ove]

The number of firearms per person is far higher in countries like Canada but they have a fraction of the number of gun related deaths than the US have.

Firearm ownership doesn't cause these incidents, maybe the other causes should be looked into and hopefully more solutions found. Its far too easy for people to jump on the band wagon and simply blame gun ownership for these types of incidents.

Blind people aren't allowed to drive, so why should stupid people be allowed to own guns? Americans clearly can't handle their firearms so why should they be allowed to have them?

 

[Half Time Pies]

But if he did, it wasn't known. Someone earlier was making the comparison to the UK controls and one aspect was that they consult a Dr to check if there is a history of mental health problems, if they had done this check on this individual (had he been looking to buy weapons) there is a very good chance that he would still have been cleared to purchase the weapons.

But in the UK its not just about checking mental health is it... there are all sorts of elements to the vetting process such as proving good reason for usage, experience, safe storage/ security of the guns to prevent acess to unauthorised persons (including other members of the applicants household!), criminal records check etc. As a result regardless of mental health issues very few people in this country have access to firearms and none (unless they are members of the military or armed police) have access to semi-automatic assault rifles.

 

[dingodan]

fact is some people have gone into work or school and start killing people with guns. no one is saying its a cause, except those making aunt sally arguments. the guns facilitate mass killing. remember the chap who went on a rampage killing loads of people with a baseball/cricket bat? no, you dont. despite all the protestations about evidence, the actual evidence is this act occured with guns, as did the last one, and the one before ad nauseum. the evidence is the US has a large probelm gun related crime, gun homicide, police shootings and mad man mass killings.

People have gone on a rampage with a car before, killed and in injured many people using a motor vehicle. Should we ban them?

You must watch too much TV as you have a disproportionate view of gun crime in the U.S. Not to mention that for some reason you seem to think that banning guns prevents gun crime, which I keep pointing out is false. It's interesting to me how much we emphasize gun crime in the U.S. and ignore the problems with gun related crime in this country.

Firearms: cheap, easy to get and on a street near you | UK news | The Guardian

Teenagers add machine guns to their arsenal | UK news | The Observer

BBC - Handgun crime 'up' despite ban

Police seize weapons including guns from schools - Telegraph

BBC - Guns for bobbies on the beat

Gun crime 60pc higher than official figures - Telegraph

BBC NEWS | UK | England | London | Firearm crime continues to rise

Britain is 'worst in the world' for armed robbery says security boss | Mail Online

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I'm sure you are well meaning, and I am sure the certainty of your assertions is just based on how emotive and upsetting this one incident is.

But try not to lose your head. If you educate yourself you will discover that simplistic emotional reactions, which seem intuitive, actually don't always provide the best solutions, in fact they tend not to.

Gun Controls Twisted Outcome - Reason.com

England has worse crime rate than the US, says Civitas study - Telegraph

Pathetic. Truly pathetic. Thanks for sharing your 'education'

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Blind people aren't allowed to drive, so why should stupid people be allowed to own guns? Americans clearly can't handle their firearms so why should they be allowed to have them?

By all accounts the perpetrator was quite intelligent, so he hardly sounds like an average stupid American.

 

[beorhthelm]

You must watch too much TV as you have a disproportionate view of gun crime in the U.S. Not to mention that for some reason you seem to think that banning guns prevents gun crime, which I keep pointing out is false. It's interesting to me how much we emphasize gun crime in the U.S. and ignore the problems with gun related crime in this country.

why do you care so much about the pro gun position? its most odd. the view i have is from the stats that the US has 60 times more gun related crime, 40 times more gun homicide and something like 80 police deaths by shooting every year to our one or two isolated incidents. i havent said banning guns prevents crime, i point out that it certainly reduces it. i came in on a point about some silly link about general crime being higher in the UK therefore gun laws dont work, which are unrelated points. now we have a half dozen links from the last decade (some really old too) about how bad gun crime is in the UK: i wonder how many more similar stories you could find for the US over a similar time?

 

[dingodan]

why do you care so much about the pro gun position? its most odd. the view i have is from the stats that the US has 60 times more gun related crime, 40 times more gun homicide and something like 80 police deaths by shooting every year to our one or two isolated incidents. i havent said banning guns prevents crime, i point out that it certainly reduces it. i came in on a point about some silly link about general crime being higher in the UK therefore gun laws dont work, which are unrelated points. now we have a half dozen links from the last decade (some really old too) about how bad gun crime is in the UK: i wonder how many more similar stories you could find for the US over a similar time?

I am not pro guns. I am pro evidence based solutions.

If you lack critical thinking skills, gun control sounds like crime control. But it isn't.

 

[pastafarian]

Hardly a sweeping statement, its been confirmed that the guns were in her ownership. I also would be surprised if she is a keen shooter at a gun club, which has historically mostly been a pursuit of men not woman. Maybe you can have a go at answering why she has 2 of the same gun model, Glock 9mm one of the most common and reliable pistols on the market? And of all the owners of guns in the states how many belong to a gun club? I bet the percentage is very small indeed. Again only time will tell whats happened here but i get the feeling you maybe way of the mark (so to speak). Just out of interest are you a gun owner yourself?

the thing is doc my point was its very early to be making statements about any of this,she didnt have 2 glocks they were different handguns and now it transpires she was indeed a keen shooter at a gun club and yes i am a gun owner but i do not own any guns that i believe will be suspect to any potential legislation and before you call the police my weapons are kept in the states with my sister who is definitely not the only female i have been shooting with,far from it from my experience the mix is about 60% male.i say this with all due respect but i think your view of firearm owners in the states is perhaps misguided and maybe misinformed.

And before anyone launches in to me,yes the events at this school were horrific,should gun control be tighter? .....absolutely yes but for all those calling for all guns to be banned....thats just a daft idea,if you think thats a possibility in the USA then i would question not only your sanity but certainly question whether you are a rational person with a viewpoint that should be considered

 

[JetsetJimbo]

I am not pro guns. I am pro evidence based solutions.

If you lack critical thinking skills, gun control sounds like crime control. But it isn't.

Evidence-based? Ok, what's the per capita gun fatality rate in countries without gun controls compared to those which have (and implement) controls? I'll give you a clue, it shows up your "argument" for the utter claptrap it is. I mean, half those articles you've given links for are opinion-based ones, yet you're somehow claiming they constitute "evidence" while ignoring actual statistics? Pathetic.

 

[dingodan]

Evidence-based? Ok, what's the per capita gun fatality rate in countries without gun controls compared to those which have (and implement) controls? I'll give you a clue, it shows up your "argument" for the utter claptrap it is. I mean, half those articles you've given links for are opinion-based ones, yet you're somehow claiming they constitute "evidence" while ignoring actual statistics? Pathetic.

Correlation does not imply causation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Fallacy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[BadFish]

Correlation does not imply causation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Fallacy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lol @ wikipedia as evidence.

 

[dingodan]

Lol @ wikipedia as evidence.

Genetic fallacy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ignoratio elenchi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Informal fallacy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[vegster]

BBC News reporting that sales of guns have gone UP in the last 24 hours according to shop owners in the US.

Having loads more nervous, untrained trigger happy morons armed is really going to help the situation.