Ultras - What's the big idea?

[Drumstick]

But I've seen it on some of their logos and stuff so it must have some relevance

See tedebear's post above, It's just a comment in jest made by Mr. Perry regards non 1901'ers and it took of on NSC and has put on a few logo's.

 

[Brovion]

Hmm. I'm not a huge fan of the 'British Ultras' movement, but on the other hand I welcome anything that boosts the atmosphere. After Withdean it's refreshing to hear or see ANYTHING.

With regard to the 'song' I personally quite like it. Yes it's not original, but then apart from GOSBTS have we got any original songs? Thinking back to the Goldstone days back in the 60s and 70s none of the songs we sung were original, from the likes of our versions of Daisy, Knees Up Mother Brown, Molly Malone and Bless 'em All, through to You'll Never Walk Alone (complete with scarves raised).

The one complaint I can't get my head round is that it's a 'North Stand' song rather than a 'Brighton' one. So what? In the 70s we had a song (a version of Cock o' the North) that finished "We are the Brighton, the Brighton FC, we are the North Stand army!" No one EVER complained that it wasn't right as it didn't mention the Chicken Run or the Lego Stand. Was sung home and away without anyone batting an eyelid. 'Course we were REAL fans in them days, not like half the moaners on here.

 

[Gazwag]

Ironic coming from someone who's crew have a flag referring to raping men.

My god you're gullible

 

[southern_sid]

My god you're gullible

 

[beorhthelm]

The North Stand Kollective, aka the Ultras (although on the facebook group we've not put ultras in our title) are a group of fans dedicated to bring atmosphere to the stadium by standing KOLLECTIVELY in the NORTH STAND.[...] I can't quite get my head around why a few guys who get banners, songs and other memorabilia going are being slated?

if it hasnt been said already, prehaps this the slating is due to the perception that "ultras" are synonymous with far right supporters. i dont know if this aways the case, but its certainly the image i have, battles with police, knife fights with foreign supporters, distibuting facist literature, etc. i cant say i see that from the NSK/Ruffian whatever, where theres alot of tounge in cheek, but the term has these links.

 

[The Large One]

Poor old Keyser Soze - isn't quite getting the whole thing, so resorts to making hypothetical scenarios up.

 

[Commander]

Hmm. I'm not a huge fan of the 'British Ultras' movement, but on the other hand I welcome anything that boosts the atmosphere. After Withdean it's refreshing to hear or see ANYTHING.

With regard to the 'song' I personally quite like it. Yes it's not original, but then apart from GOSBTS have we got any original songs? Thinking back to the Goldstone days back in the 60s and 70s none of the songs we sung were original, from the likes of our versions of Daisy, Knees Up Mother Brown, Molly Malone and Bless 'em All, through to You'll Never Walk Alone (complete with scarves raised).

The one complaint I can't get my head round is that it's a 'North Stand' song rather than a 'Brighton' one. So what? In the 70s we had a song (a version of Cock o' the North) that finished "We are the Brighton, the Brighton FC, we are the North Stand army!" No one EVER complained that it wasn't right as it didn't mention the Chicken Run or the Lego Stand. Was sung home and away without anyone batting an eyelid. 'Course we were REAL fans in them days, not like half the moaners on here.

Spot on. People moaning about that song not being original cant have watched much football away from the Albion as virtually every football song is sung in some for by other teams.

I remember that song you talk of from the Goldstone as well, we should bring that one back. I can only remember the last bit of it though.

Anything that creates an atmosphere is welcome in my view, but I don't like the way they have gone with NSK and the 'Ultras' tag. It's all a bit European, and until recently the atmosphere in British football has always been better than in Europe, we shouldn't need to copy them.

And the other thing is, we have played 9 games now and apat from the wwwooooooaaaahhhhh song which some hate and some love, I haven't heard anything different or new at all. If the NSK really are a group that are there to improve the atmosphere, it's about time they came up with some new stuff. I've said it many times before, but it doesn't really matter what songs we sing or what the words are, if they are sung by everyone and sung loud, they will sound good. The amount of new song ideas that people post on here that are shouted down and branded as 'cringeworthy', 'gay', or 'shit' is ridiculous. At least half of them would work, if everyone sung them.

So, NSK, you've formed your group, you've made your banners and flags, why don't you start binging some new songs to the Amex? At the moment the atmosphere is good, but in my opinion it is slipping a bit, it has been that little bit quieter each game and we need some new stuff to keep it going. If you come up with some new stuff and make it work, the vast majority of Albion fans will warm to you. The woooooaaaahhhh song is OK I suppose, I'd rather we were singing that than singing nothing, but between you you should be able to come up with something a lot better than that, and then that song can die it's natural death.

 

[Pantani]

Right lets put this to bed now. Ultras are not just far right groups, they are not overtly violent either. It is just the actions of certain groups that are these things that make people think that they are.

Definition of Ultras form Wikipedia:

Ultras are a type of sports fans renowned for their fanatical support and elaborate displays. They are predominantly European followers of football teams. The behavioral tendency of ultras groups includes the use of flares (primarily in tifo choreography), vocal support in large groups and the displaying of banners at football stadiums, all of which are designed to create an atmosphere which encourages their own team and intimidates opposing players and supporters.

The actions of ultras groups can occasionally be overly extreme and are sometimes influenced by political ideologies or views on racism, in some instances to the point where the central ideology of the ultras phenomenon, passionate and loyal support of your team, becomes a sideshow. In recent decades, the culture has become a focal point for the movement against the commercialization of sports and football in particular.

Here is the section on hooliganism from the same article:

Hooliganism

While ultras groups can become violent, the vast majority of matches attended by ultras conclude with no violent incidents. Unlike hooligan firms, whose main aim is to fight hooligans of other clubs, the main focus of ultras is to support their own team. Hooligans usually try to be inconspicuous when they travel; usually not wearing team colors, in order to avoid detection by the police. Ultras tend to be more conspicuous when they travel, proudly displaying their scarves and club colors while arriving en masse, which allows the police to keep a close eye on their movements.

However, there appears to be a degree of crossover in some countries between ultras and hooligans. In Italy, when English club Middlesbrough played a match against AS Roma in March 2006, three Middlesbrough fans were stabbed in an attack that was blamed on Roma supporting ultras.


So from this we can conclude that Ultras are no different from football fans in general. There are some bad apples, there are some violent groups, there are some highly political ones (both left and right). I'm sure there are plenty of people on here old enough to remember all Brighton fans being labeled as hooligans during the protest years, misconceptions are easy to come by if you do not bother to research things.

Finally, to those saying that as a group NSK should watch themselves as people will think they are a group of top boys looking for a fight, you need to pay attention to reality. Unless you go looking for fights at football they will not come your way (even if you happen to own a Stone Island jumper) in the time I have supported Brighton (over 25 years now) going home and away I have been involved in one violent incident. That being four teenage Southend fans who started pushing me and calling me a poofter until I just brushed past them, hardly the most serious occurence and hardly violent for that matter.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

If I go to a game and sing, does that make me an Ultra Cool

Hasn't the name just been taken from Palace anyway, who's Ultra's do a good job of making an atmosphere Hats off to the Palace Ultras - CPFC BBS

I'm all for making a good atmosphere, and I'm also all for inclusiveness, so the NSK could do a lot worse than change the words from We're the North Stand to we are Brighton, etc. Start it at Leicester and it could get big....

 

[Commander]

if it hasnt been said already, prehaps this the slating is due to the perception that "ultras" are synonymous with far right supporters.

It has been said already, but it is incorrect. St Pauli? Roma? Far right?

I think they may disagree with you slightly there.

 

[beorhthelm]

It has been said already, but it is incorrect. St Pauli? Roma? Far right?

I think they may disagree with you slightly there.

thats why i said "perception". you cant deny that there is an association in some cases. StPauli and Roma are the opposite end of the spectrum, shirley? Roma stabed some Middlesbrough and werent they the ones that had a full scale riot a few years ago? certainly recall something about Italian ultras a while ago where the train to the away game was basically a recruitment seminar for the far right.

at the end of the day, the term has some baggage.

 

[beorhthelm]

Finally, to those saying that as a group NSK should watch themselves as people will think they are a group of top boys looking for a fight, you need to pay attention to reality. Unless you go looking for fights at football they will not come your way (even if you happen to own a Stone Island jumper)

thats true enough. a freind has on more than one occasion gone away looking like page 24 of the Stone Island cataloge, because thats where he shops. no trouble at all.

 

[Sleaford Seagull]

pmsl twice i aint gonna tell you what its all about work it out for yourself....if you can....clueless.... This is the reason why i firmly believe your sharp uprise will be followed with a sharp downfall ta la bye bye bye bye bye this quote will resound in your head in a few years welcome to your end

yeah errr what?? :S If your gonna bore us all to death at least make it understandable.

 

[Commander]

thats why i said "perception". you cant deny that there is an association in some cases. StPauli and Roma are the opposite end of the spectrum, shirley? Roma stabed some Middlesbrough and werent they the ones that had a full scale riot a few years ago? certainly recall something about Italian ultras a while ago where the train to the away game was basically a recruitment seminar for the far right.

at the end of the day, the term has some baggage.

So because Roma stabbed Middlesbrough and had a full scale riot, that makes them far right? What? I wasn't saying they weren't violent, I was saying that the perception that Ultra groups in Europe are all far right is wrong. Roma are far left, Lazio are far right, hence the rivalry.

 

[Dave the OAP]

We are the Pride of all Sussex
The Cock of the South
we hate the cockneys and We hate the Welsh
We are the Brighton, the Brighton FC
We are the North Stand Army.
lalalalalalalallaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

etc etc

 

[Commander]

pmsl twice i aint gonna tell you what its all about work it out for yourself....if you can....clueless.... This is the reason why i firmly believe your sharp uprise will be followed with a sharp downfall ta la bye bye bye bye bye this quote will resound in your head in a few years welcome to your end

That is brilliant. Do you speak like that in real life? What on earth is wrong with you? You'd better learn English quickly or you'll get your benefits stopped under these new proposals.

 

[Dave the OAP]

Right lets put this to bed now. Ultras are not just far right groups, they are not overtly violent either. It is just the actions of certain groups that are these things that make people think that they are.

Definition of Ultras form Wikipedia:

Ultras are a type of sports fans renowned for their fanatical support and elaborate displays. They are predominantly European followers of football teams. The behavioral tendency of ultras groups includes the use of flares (primarily in tifo choreography), vocal support in large groups and the displaying of banners at football stadiums, all of which are designed to create an atmosphere which encourages their own team and intimidates opposing players and supporters.

The actions of ultras groups can occasionally be overly extreme and are sometimes influenced by political ideologies or views on racism, in some instances to the point where the central ideology of the ultras phenomenon, passionate and loyal support of your team, becomes a sideshow. In recent decades, the culture has become a focal point for the movement against the commercialization of sports and football in particular.

Here is the section on hooliganism from the same article:

Hooliganism

While ultras groups can become violent, the vast majority of matches attended by ultras conclude with no violent incidents. Unlike hooligan firms, whose main aim is to fight hooligans of other clubs, the main focus of ultras is to support their own team. Hooligans usually try to be inconspicuous when they travel; usually not wearing team colors, in order to avoid detection by the police. Ultras tend to be more conspicuous when they travel, proudly displaying their scarves and club colors while arriving en masse, which allows the police to keep a close eye on their movements.

However, there appears to be a degree of crossover in some countries between ultras and hooligans. In Italy, when English club Middlesbrough played a match against AS Roma in March 2006, three Middlesbrough fans were stabbed in an attack that was blamed on Roma supporting ultras.


So from this we can conclude that Ultras are no different from football fans in general. There are some bad apples, there are some violent groups, there are some highly political ones (both left and right). I'm sure there are plenty of people on here old enough to remember all Brighton fans being labeled as hooligans during the protest years, misconceptions are easy to come by if you do not bother to research things.

Finally, to those saying that as a group NSK should watch themselves as people will think they are a group of top boys looking for a fight, you need to pay attention to reality. Unless you go looking for fights at football they will not come your way (even if you happen to own a Stone Island jumper) in the time I have supported Brighton (over 25 years now) going home and away I have been involved in one violent incident. That being four teenage Southend fans who started pushing me and calling me a poofter until I just brushed past them, hardly the most serious occurence and hardly violent for that matter.

Erm does that apply to the SERBIAN Ultras who wrecked Genoa(?) in Italy and were banned from the next away games?

they seemed like f***ing psychopaths

 

[Commander]

We are the Pride of all Sussex
The Cock of the South
we hate the cockneys and We hate the Welsh
We are the Brighton, the Brighton FC
We are the North Stand Army.
lalalalalalalallaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

etc etc

Ah yes, bring it back! Much better.

 

[Brovion]

...
I remember that song you talk of from the Goldstone as well, we should bring that one back. I can only remember the last bit of it though.

...

It went:

We're the pride of all Europe,
The cock of the south,
We hat the Cockneys and we hate the Scouse*
We are the Brighton, the Brighton FC,
We are the North Stand army!
La la la - la la la la la, la la la la la! (Repeat la's until the whole thing falls apart as everyone goes at different speeds).

*Some sang "We hate the cockneys, the scousers of course", but that didn't really rhyme and was from the original Man U "Cock o' the north" version

I suppose as well as it only mentioning the North Stand the more picky pedant could point out that at no time were Brighton every really "the pride of all Europe" and also we weren't an 'army' just a group of people at a football match. And it came from Man U so probably just as well it did die a death as it would never get approved by the song Nazis on here.

And woe betide ANYONE these days caught singing "Knees up Brighton Town!"

 

[Dave the OAP]

Ah yes, bring it back! Much better.

I will start that at the Leeds game...anyone care to join in?