Ultras - What's the big idea?

[Pretty pink fairy]

Right lets put this to bed now. Ultras are not just far right groups, they are not overtly violent either. It is just the actions of certain groups that are these things that make people think that they are.

Definition of Ultras form Wikipedia:

Ultras are a type of sports fans renowned for their fanatical support and elaborate displays. They are predominantly European followers of football teams. The behavioral tendency of ultras groups includes the use of flares (primarily in tifo choreography), vocal support in large groups and the displaying of banners at football stadiums, all of which are designed to create an atmosphere which encourages their own team and intimidates opposing players and supporters.

The actions of ultras groups can occasionally be overly extreme and are sometimes influenced by political ideologies or views on racism, in some instances to the point where the central ideology of the ultras phenomenon, passionate and loyal support of your team, becomes a sideshow. In recent decades, the culture has become a focal point for the movement against the commercialization of sports and football in particular.

Here is the section on hooliganism from the same article:

Hooliganism

While ultras groups can become violent, the vast majority of matches attended by ultras conclude with no violent incidents. Unlike hooligan firms, whose main aim is to fight hooligans of other clubs, the main focus of ultras is to support their own team. Hooligans usually try to be inconspicuous when they travel; usually not wearing team colors, in order to avoid detection by the police. Ultras tend to be more conspicuous when they travel, proudly displaying their scarves and club colors while arriving en masse, which allows the police to keep a close eye on their movements.

However, there appears to be a degree of crossover in some countries between ultras and hooligans. In Italy, when English club Middlesbrough played a match against AS Roma in March 2006, three Middlesbrough fans were stabbed in an attack that was blamed on Roma supporting ultras.


So from this we can conclude that Ultras are no different from football fans in general. There are some bad apples, there are some violent groups, there are some highly political ones (both left and right). I'm sure there are plenty of people on here old enough to remember all Brighton fans being labeled as hooligans during the protest years, misconceptions are easy to come by if you do not bother to research things.

Finally, to those saying that as a group NSK should watch themselves as people will think they are a group of top boys looking for a fight, you need to pay attention to reality. Unless you go looking for fights at football they will not come your way (even if you happen to own a Stone Island jumper) in the time I have supported Brighton (over 25 years now) going home and away I have been involved in one violent incident. That being four teenage Southend fans who started pushing me and calling me a poofter until I just brushed past them, hardly the most serious occurence and hardly violent for that matter.

do you believe everything you read, i'd take a lot of what you've put up there with a pinch of salt personally,i don't think you're the type to give us a lesson on football cultures unless you're one or the other, i find it a bit odd

 

[eagles #1]

Spot on. People moaning about that song not being original cant have watched much football away from the Albion as virtually every football song is sung in some for by other teams.

I remember that song you talk of from the Goldstone as well, we should bring that one back. I can only remember the last bit of it though.

Anything that creates an atmosphere is welcome in my view, but I don't like the way they have gone with NSK and the 'Ultras' tag. It's all a bit European, and until recently the atmosphere in British football has always been better than in Europe, we shouldn't need to copy them.

And the other thing is, we have played 9 games now and apat from the wwwooooooaaaahhhhh song which some hate and some love, I haven't heard anything different or new at all. If the NSK really are a group that are there to improve the atmosphere, it's about time they came up with some new stuff. I've said it many times before, but it doesn't really matter what songs we sing or what the words are, if they are sung by everyone and sung loud, they will sound good. The amount of new song ideas that people post on here that are shouted down and branded as 'cringeworthy', 'gay', or 'shit' is ridiculous. At least half of them would work, if everyone sung them.
So, NSK, you've formed your group, you've made your banners and flags, why don't you start binging some new songs to the Amex? At the moment the atmosphere is good, but in my opinion it is slipping a bit, it has been that little bit quieter each game and we need some new stuff to keep it going. If you come up with some new stuff and make it work, the vast majority of Albion fans will warm to you. The woooooaaaahhhh song is OK I suppose, I'd rather we were singing that than singing nothing, but between you you should be able to come up with something a lot better than that, and then that song can die it's natural death.

I'm sure after the 27th your NSK boys will have some new material.

NSK = HF Tribute band.

 

[Commander]

It went:

We're the pride of all Europe,
The cock of the south,
We hat the Cockneys and we hate the Scouse*
We are the Brighton, the Brighton FC,
We are the North Stand army!
La la la - la la la la la, la la la la la! (Repeat la's until the whole thing falls apart as everyone goes at different speeds).

*Some sang "We hate the cockneys, the scousers of course", but that didn't really rhyme and was from the original Man U "Cock o' the north" version

I suppose as well as it only mentioning the North Stand the more picky pedant could point out that at no time were Brighton every really "the pride of all Europe" and also we weren't an 'army' just a group of people at a football match. And it came from Man U so probably just as well it did die a death as it would never get approved by the song Nazis on here.

And woe betide ANYONE these days caught singing "Knees up Brighton Town!"

The old ones were the best, weren't they?

I don't think the song Nazis on here are people who would actually have the balls to stand up and start songs anyway so I wouldn't worry too much about them.

I haven't heard 'Knees up Brighton town' since the Gillingham days

 

[Commander]

I will start that at the Leeds game...anyone care to join in?

I will. I doubt you'll hear me in Cornwall though so it may just be you and Brovian.

I think there are enough old North standers at the Amex for it to catch on again though.

As long as the NSK don't think it is beneath them to sing old songs like this, that is.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

The old ones were the best, weren't they?

I don't think the song Nazis on here are people who would actually have the balls to stand up and start songs anyway so I wouldn't worry too much about them.

I haven't heard 'Knees up Brighton town' since the Gillingham days

something to do with sitting down ?

 

[Drumstick]

As long as the NSK don't think it is beneath them to sing old songs like this, that is.

Why the dig? We have said over and over all we want to to help keep songs going I've no idea why people think we wont sing song that we haven't sung? We are Brighton fans all the same and have sung all these songs for years, All we are doing is getting a group together who will continue to sing even if it all goes tits up on the pitch and support our team.

 

[Commander]

Why the dig? We have said over and over all we want to to help keep songs going I've no idea why people think we wont sing song that we haven't sung? We are Brighton fans all the same and have sung all these songs for years, All we are doing is getting a group together who will continue to sing even if it all goes tits up on the pitch and support our team.

It wasn't a serious comment mate, I don't really use smileys but if I did it would have had one of these next to it

 

[tedebear]

Right lets put this to bed now. Ultras are not just far right groups, they are not overtly violent either. It is just the actions of certain groups that are these things that make people think that they are.

Definition of Ultras form Wikipedia:

Ultras are a type of sports fans renowned for their fanatical support and elaborate displays. They are predominantly European followers of football teams. The behavioral tendency of ultras groups includes the use of flares (primarily in tifo choreography), vocal support in large groups and the displaying of banners at football stadiums, all of which are designed to create an atmosphere which encourages their own team and intimidates opposing players and supporters.

The actions of ultras groups can occasionally be overly extreme and are sometimes influenced by political ideologies or views on racism, in some instances to the point where the central ideology of the ultras phenomenon, passionate and loyal support of your team, becomes a sideshow. In recent decades, the culture has become a focal point for the movement against the commercialization of sports and football in particular.

Here is the section on hooliganism from the same article:

Hooliganism

While ultras groups can become violent, the vast majority of matches attended by ultras conclude with no violent incidents. Unlike hooligan firms, whose main aim is to fight hooligans of other clubs, the main focus of ultras is to support their own team. Hooligans usually try to be inconspicuous when they travel; usually not wearing team colors, in order to avoid detection by the police. Ultras tend to be more conspicuous when they travel, proudly displaying their scarves and club colors while arriving en masse, which allows the police to keep a close eye on their movements.

However, there appears to be a degree of crossover in some countries between ultras and hooligans. In Italy, when English club Middlesbrough played a match against AS Roma in March 2006, three Middlesbrough fans were stabbed in an attack that was blamed on Roma supporting ultras.


So from this we can conclude that Ultras are no different from football fans in general. There are some bad apples, there are some violent groups, there are some highly political ones (both left and right). I'm sure there are plenty of people on here old enough to remember all Brighton fans being labeled as hooligans during the protest years, misconceptions are easy to come by if you do not bother to research things.

Finally, to those saying that as a group NSK should watch themselves as people will think they are a group of top boys looking for a fight, you need to pay attention to reality. Unless you go looking for fights at football they will not come your way (even if you happen to own a Stone Island jumper) in the time I have supported Brighton (over 25 years now) going home and away I have been involved in one violent incident. That being four teenage Southend fans who started pushing me and calling me a poofter until I just brushed past them, hardly the most serious occurence and hardly violent for that matter.

The minority have spolied it for you then, and it appears others on here feel the same.

I applaud what you are trying to do, but in my mind I associate violence, racism, flare throwing and bottle throwing with your moniker.

Enough from me, carry on and I sincerely hope no harm ever comes to any of you, nor you begin dishing it out.

 

[Pantani]

Erm does that apply to the SERBIAN Ultras who wrecked Genoa(?) in Italy and were banned from the next away games?

they seemed like f***ing psychopaths

No, the same as Serbian ultras behaviour doesn't apply to the groups who are peaceful.

 

[Pantani]

do you believe everything you read, i'd take a lot of what you've put up there with a pinch of salt personally,i don't think you're the type to give us a lesson on football cultures unless you're one or the other, i find it a bit odd

No, I do not believe everything I read. I do speak as someone who has followed the Albion home and away for years and has been to many ganes in Europe. I was merely using wikipedia as an independent source to back up my argument.

 

[Seagull Steve]

Sure anyone aged 24-30 who knocks about with a f***ing 'ultra' group full of spotty boys is suspect as f***. If I was the parent of a young NSK member and I knew that I would insist on a background check for sex offences. As a little after school club fair enough, but with male adults involved...deeply disturbing.

I haven't read anything after this post yet. I am not part of the NSK,neither do I know any of them. But I find this post deeply offensive. Should I be subjected to a police background check, as I joined in when a couple of youngsters started signing on the bridge after the Peterborough game? These are lads that are doing exactly what the club has asked, by keeping the atmosphere going all through the game. Supporters like you that bandy words around like sex offenders, should shut the f*** up and let them do what they enjoy. I can't believe these lads are getting the grief they are, as they are Albion supporters like you and I, and they have paid for their ticket, just the same as you. As far as I'm concerned they are doing a sterling job. Keep it up lads.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Definition of the word "ultra" - prefix meaning "beyond" (ultraviolet) or "extremely" (ultramodern), from L. ultra- from ultra (adv. and prep.) "beyond, on the further side," from PIE *al- "beyond." In common use from early 19c., it appears to have arisen from French political designations. As its own word, a noun meaning "extremist" of.

In common football parlance the use of the term "ultras" is connected to violent hooligans, typically with extremist political persuasions.

Unless I am mistaken this is the very opposite of what BHA's "ultras" are about; thankfully instead of violence and political extremism we have a group of enthusiastic fans who want to sing and create banners etc.

On this basis its clear that many don't understand why a group of earnest football fans who want to do no more than sing peacefully at football matches would choose to define themselves as "ultras".

The ultimate irony is that these fans would be the very same fans who detest any kind of football violence (especially if it was connected to political extremism) and would happily riducule football firms as chidish and idiotic. Yet evidently they want their own football related gang defined by a moniker that has violent connotations.

You reap what you sow.

FFS. Some people are reading way too much into these Ultra fellas. Unless I'm mistaken they're simply a group of lads who have organised themselves for a bit of fun on a Saturday afternoon. The upshot is we also get some atmosphere. What's the issue?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Just stop calling yourself ultras and putting that on your flags, then all this arguing can finish. Because you are far from being 'ultras' its just plain embarrassing and not original.

That's the crux of the matter for me also, the cringe-making 'ultras' label. Why not just quietly drop it? They've already got the NSK label going for them, do they really need two labels, one of which destroys any credibility they may be seeking to establish. Why not just run with the NSK thing instead? Seems to me that could develop quite nicely in its own right.

 

[Brovion]

... and one more for those complaining about the use of the words 'North Stand' in the NSK chant: I've just remembered that after I graduated to the South Stand (where all the top boys went before it became all-seater) we had a South Stand song:

Nye nye na nye,
South Stand Republican Army!
Wherever we go,
We fight the foe,
'Cos we are the SSRA!


SSRA - Hated but rated!

 

[alan partridge]

Why not just quietly drop it?

i was thinking that too. but not with regards to the NSK lot.

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

The 'Ultras' are passionate Albion fans trying to create an atmosphere and nothing more. They're hardly planning to invade Poland! Find it very strange that so many people have got such a problem with it. God forbid we should try out anything new at our football club.

 

[tedebear]

The 'Ultras' are passionate Albion fans trying to create an atmosphere and nothing more. They're hardly planning to invade Poland! Find it very strange that so many people have got such a problem with it. God forbid we should try out anything new at our football club.

For goodness sake, no-one has a problem with it, just the name. Don't people read.

 

[Keyser Söze]

I haven't read anything after this post yet. I am not part of the NSK,neither do I know any of them. But I find this post deeply offensive. Should I be subjected to a police background check, as I joined in when a couple of youngsters started signing on the bridge after the Peterborough game? These are lads that are doing exactly what the club has asked, by keeping the atmosphere going all through the game. Supporters like you that bandy words around like sex offenders, should shut the f*** up and let them do what they enjoy. I can't believe these lads are getting the grief they are, as they are Albion supporters like you and I, and they have paid for their ticket, just the same as you. As far as I'm concerned they are doing a sterling job. Keep it up lads.

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

For goodness sake, no-one has a problem with it, just the name. Don't people read.

I was going to preface my post with "I can't be bothered to read the last seven pages" but thought I'd get away with it.

 

[Commander]

... and one more for those complaining about the use of the words 'North Stand' in the NSK chant: I've just remembered that after I graduated to the South Stand (where all the top boys went before it became all-seater) we had a South Stand song:

Nye nye na nye,
South Stand Republican Army!
Wherever we go,
We fight the foe,
'Cos we are the SSRA!


SSRA - Hated but rated!

There's one I've never heard before.