[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[Raleigh Chopper]

I don't buy that particular theory. However, there was definitely an ideological agenda where leaving the EU was simply a means to an end because of it's regulation.

I think it was about the fantasy of turning the UK into a low regulation, low tax, low spending Singapore style economy. Possibly making the UK itself a tax haven to encourage foreign investment.

Farmers and manufacturing to them are just a drain on the state. Food and products can be manufactured cheaper abroad and imported. Financial services, technology and science are where the country should be.

However, such a plan was unpalatable to the majority of the population so the central politicians and financers who believed in the vision were quite happy to allow the EU to be presented as the source of all evil.

Where it has completely unravelled is millions of people they encouraged to support them very ones being sold down the river. They have started to wise up. Not so much in that they have changed their minds about Brexit, but everything about the fact they are currently being shat on.

Ironically, those concerned about "freedom of movement" and immigration levels will be shocked to know that such an economy will completely rely on mass cheap immigrant labour, willing to work with less rights.

No wonder they wanted control of the borders.

The biggest political con in my lifetime, but they pulled it off. For now.

Where are all the brexiteers on NSC.
They are and have been very vocal over the years, putting their points forward as they have every right to do, after all the small majority won.
I want to see you challenged on posts like this by people that were so informed pre vote that you may be hopelessly wrong.

 

[clapham_gull]

Where are all the brexiteers on NSC.
They are and have been very vocal over the years, putting their points forward as they have every right to do, after all the small majority won.
I want to see you challenged on posts like this by people that were so informed pre vote that you may be hopelessly wrong.

I don't blame them, they were lied to.

I've been ambivalent towards the EU for years, deciding to vote remain on the morning of the referendum.

Mainly because I couldn't quite compute the fact that this protectionist mainly white European club (which had built walls around itself) was being attacked by those who wanted to build walls and was being defended by those who saw any attack on it as racist.

Within that mess, the neo-liberals who have over taken the Conservative party stepped in. Not helped by a leader of the opposition who had spent his whole career campaigning against it.

It was never about leaving the EU, that was just a means to an end. I voted remain because I could never bring myself to trust the motivations of those who wanted us to leave.

Added to that, unlike most on here I had two terms of Boris as Mayor or as like to refer to him "what would have happened if Jeffery Archer wasn't caught out."

He's free spending (wasted a billion in vanity projects), liberal, populist, very pro freedom of movement whilst making up a number of a few lies about the EU in the past to sell his journalism.

 

[Gwylan]

Ironically, those concerned about "freedom of movement" and immigration levels will be shocked to know that such an economy will completely rely on mass cheap immigrant labour, willing to work with less rights.

Indeed. The talk was of a European Singapore, a booming economy with low taxes and little regulation, ignoring the fact that Singapore has one of the highest percentage of immigrants in the world.

 

[clapham_gull]

Indeed. The talk was of a European Singapore, a booming economy with low taxes and little regulation, ignoring the fact that Singapore has one of the highest percentage of immigrants in the world.

As well as the reality of doing trade deals with countries outside the EU which would lead to deals where relaxed immigration levels and visas would be part of the deal.

It's the absolute irony for those who believed the lie that Brexit would mean less immigration.

The reality being that the people being encouraged in now are far more likely to stay because of the economies they have come from.

 

[clapham_gull]

As for those who thought this administration would:

1) Return them to a golden age
2) Release them from state interference in their personal lives
3) Reduce their taxes and limit public spending

.. are feeling somewhat politically homeless.


I never thought it was British and patriot to throw your toys out the pram and run away, but maybe that's just me.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Tory meltdown incoming...

Added to that, unlike most on here I had two terms of Boris as Mayor or as like to refer to him "what would have happened if Jeffery Archer wasn't caught out."

He's free spending (wasted a billion in vanity projects), liberal, populist, very pro freedom of movement whilst making up a number of a few lies about the EU in the past to sell his journalism.

Johnson reputedly wrote out two articles on Brexit, pro-leave and pro-remain prior to nailing his colours to the mast. While I consider the bloated sod way too lazy to have done this in reality (he really does strive for the easy life!), the action reflects his renowned political instinct. He’ll do or say anything for more power, money and influence.

Whilst I agree with the characteristics you ascribe to the buffoon, it’s important to ascertain that if these are framed as political ideologies, they are only facsimiles of the characteristics he displays in his private life from where they are born.

‘Free spending’: A quick google will tell you that this vile excuse for an Englishman has no understanding of the value of money, he just spends and spends until he runs out of dosh knowing that he can wield enough influence and change enough things in government for seedy benefactors like Brownlow to pick up his bills.

‘Liberal’. I don’t think he really cares much what others do and how much freedom from government they have unless they get in his way or he is not allowed to live by the Johnson family motto. ‘I do what I want, when I want’….. my latin is not great but it’s something like…phuccus ofas I doas I wantus

‘Populist’. Yup. He wants to be popular in his personal life so he’ll always say what he thinks he wants his target audience to hear. There are normally two drivers at work. One is to attract women to sleep with him (who he’ll quickly
breed and toss to one side when the poontang is taken off tap). And two, to attract money and favours from wealthy ‘chums’ using his wholly fake ‘bumbling toff ’ act.

‘Pro freedom of movement’. Again, he is not too worried either way. He wants sex from woman and money from men, as long as it’s got tits and a pulse or a fat wallet, he is not really bothered about where his targets comes from. It’s a numbers game if anything for him with his looks. The more fish in the sea, the happier fisherman Johnson be.

Ultimately Johnson neither believes or disbelieves in Brexit, it was a means to an end; more sex, more money and his ambition achieved as the head honcho of No.10 ideally spending the bulk of his time on holiday or having cheese and wine parties.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Where are all the brexiteers on NSC.
They are and have been very vocal over the years, putting their points forward as they have every right to do, after all the small majority won.
I want to see you challenged on posts like this by people that were so informed pre vote that you may be hopelessly wrong.

Where are all the Brexiteers? Moved on and getting on with life.

Have a good xmas.

 

[rogersix]

Where are all the Brexiteers? Moved on and getting on with life.

Have a good xmas.

Living a lie, do you mean?

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

I know these matters are intrinsically linked, but I could have sworn there was a perfectly good Brexit thread somewhere on these veritable boards!

Maybe this thread should now be merged with that one, or the Brexit posts moved over to the Brexit thread - just a thought!

 

[vegster]

Where are all the Brexiteers? Moved on and getting on with life.

Have a good xmas.

Or filling out their ETIAS exemption forms ready for 2022?

 

[Guinness Boy]

I know these matters are intrinsically linked, but I could have sworn there was a perfectly good Brexit thread somewhere on these veritable boards!

Maybe this thread should now be merged with that one, or the Brexit posts moved over to the Brexit thread - just a thought!

There is, but the level of debate on that thread would make a Primary School special class look like the Oxford Union. It's basically full of the equivalent of the fans who deliberately stand next to the away/home fan divide with their arms wide open being held back by the magic net, only instead of football songs it's Guardian articles, Twitter reposts and GB News.

Besides, Brexit now touches every single area of our lives in Britain. It affects immigration and economic policy, travel, health (have we lost NHS workers in the middle of a pandemic), hospitality and, yes, maybe even football if we suddenly have to start making exemptions for EU based players transferring to English clubs.

So long as the debate remains civil it's pretty central to what people think of the Tory party and how Boris arrived at running the country. And Bozza has made it very clear that uncivil debate in this area is now an automatic ban.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Where are all the Brexiteers? Moved on and getting on with life.

Have a good xmas.

Did you stop discussing the EU after we joined the Common Market?

 

[Jim in the West]

Or filling out their ETIAS exemption forms ready for 2022?

Hang on - I thought they hated Europe....surely they will be holidaying in Skegness or Blackpool? Leave Europe for the Metropolitan Elite/citizens of nowhere....at least we might actually appreciate the chance of travelling "on the continent"!

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

There is, but the level of debate on that thread would make a Primary School special class look like the Oxford Union. It's basically full of the equivalent of the fans who deliberately stand next to the away/home fan divide with their arms wide open being held back by the magic net, only instead of football songs it's Guardian articles, Twitter reposts and GB News.

Besides, Brexit now touches every single area of our lives in Britain. It affects immigration and economic policy, travel, health (have we lost NHS workers in the middle of a pandemic), hospitality and, yes, maybe even football if we suddenly have to start making exemptions for EU based players transferring to English clubs.

So long as the debate remains civil it's pretty central to what people think of the Tory party and how Boris arrived at running the country. And Bozza has made it very clear that uncivil debate in this area is now an automatic ban.

Your sentiment is good, but unfortunately the most recent posts just appear to be ridiculing those that voted for Brexit, while the Brexiteers are safely ensconced in the Bear Pit, this thread has suddenly morphed into a Brexit MkII thread...

 

[nicko31]

Johnson can't actually do anything because of the lunatic fringe in his party that saw any further measures as an erosion of civil liberties and anti democratic....... they don't mind laws that require photo ID for the democratic right to vote though.

Or curtaining peace protest or eroding human rights legislation

They are just odd balls..

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

Where are all the Brexiteers? Moved on and getting on with life.

Have a good xmas.

And that is the reply I expected with a sarcasm thrown in for good measure.
Moved on? running away more like, this is the most important bit, to see how your vote now pans out.
All I can get is 'it was a democratic vote well yes, we live in a democracy, all votes are democratic.
You have not moved on, you have run away with your fingers in your ears because you know you have messed up, lied to, fell for it hook line and sinker.
Where are all the fantastic deals?
Still at least you have managed to send home the foreigners, who we have relied on for many years to keep this country ticking over whilst massively helping our economy well done.
Now answer Claphams post, tell us why he is wrong, you have made your vote now argue the consequences through.
Or were you always misinformed?

 

[nicko31]

Where are all the brexiteers on NSC.
They are and have been very vocal over the years, putting their points forward as they have every right to do, after all the small majority won.
I want to see you challenged on posts like this by people that were so informed pre vote that you may be hopelessly wrong.

They briefly appeared on here in February, something about vaccines and we couldn't have done it without Brexit. It was a rare moment of hope that was short lived...

Most haven't been heard of since, the rest are periodically banned when they do emerge on here

 

[WATFORD zero]

Your sentiment is good, but unfortunately the most recent posts just appear to be ridiculing those that voted for Brexit, while the Brexiteers are safely ensconced in the Bear Pit, this thread has suddenly morphed into a Brexit MkII thread...

There are some posts on here which aren't great, but I think the vast majority of posts are about what is currently happening in the Conservative party leadership. As has been pointed out by a number of posters, the two biggest issues that any new Conservative leader would have (when or if the current incumbent goes ) will be Covid and Brexit and the various issues from them.

It's a discussion about what may happen going forward and the likely effects on the country. If anyone is 'ensconced' in the Bear Pit, then that is their choice but they can post on the main board, as long as they can abide by the rules. Those who can't get temporarily banned same as for the last 20 years on NSC.

So, what's your guess on who's behind this current drip, drip release of information on what Johnson and co have been up to, 'one nation' conservatives, ERG/Covid liberalists or a Gove/Cummings twosome. Or do you have a different idea

 

[Bodian]

I'm a bit disappointed - no new photos or leaks for a couple of days now. Where have they all gone?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Did you stop discussing the EU after we joined the Common Market?

And the BLOTD award goes to GB