[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Surely with PR every vote counts? Or it should do, to a very large extent. I suppose it depends partly on how the PR system is devised - but in the simplest terms of 50% of the vote gets you 50% of the seats, and 10% of the vote gets you 10% of the seats - the more votes your preferred party gets the more seats it gets. Under PR I simply can't see when I would vote for a party I didn't particularly want - just to keep the party I don't want from winning (like I have almost always done in my voting life because of the constituencies I have lived in).

Precisely. Nobody knows.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I understand your ire. The voters didn't have that choice to make and most voters don't undertake an in depth analysis of the candidates. Corbyn's filibustering over Brexit meant the Tory chairman's cat could have led them to victory over Corbyn. He couldn't even convince my wife to vote for him in return for £30k back pension.

Yes, good points. I was even more cross with labour MPs for poncing about in their leadership election to allow Corbyn onto the slate, then allowing any Tom Dick and Harry the gift of a vote for £3 or whatever it was, then wondering how a coalition of doe-eyed teenage Corbynistas, class war momentumists, and massed ranks of prankster tories could hijack the vote and plant the Islington traitor in the hot seat.

I urged labour supporters to vote for anyone but labour so that Corbyn would be trounced and flounce in the last GE but one, but sadly he got enough votes to maintain a bullish hold on his position. Still.....at the end of the day we have Johnson in charge because we deserve him.

It may be useful if Starmer were to ditch his dimmer colleagues from the shadow cabinet, but he will need to inhale some of Johnson's chutzpa to go the full Blair. He looks like he's biding his time right now, probably wise given a GE is a long way off.

Perhaps he may benefit when the time comes by taking a leaf from Johnson's book. 'We leave the EU and worry about whatever comes when we are free'.... 'We leave the tories in opposition and (you can guess the rest)'. Unfortunately I suspect he may walk into Johnson's trap and offer detailed plans with a degree of uncertainty over costs. If I were him I'd do what Thatcher did in 79 - write a manifesto on the back of a postage stamp: "Conservatism isn't working".

Unhappy days.

 

[Gwylan]

It may be useful if Starmer were to ditch his dimmer colleagues from the shadow cabinet, but he will need to inhale some of Johnson's chutzpa to go the full Blair. He looks like he's biding his time right now, probably wise given a GE is a long way off.

Perhaps he may benefit when the time comes by taking a leaf from Johnson's book. 'We leave the EU and worry about whatever comes when we are free'.... 'We leave the tories in opposition and (you can guess the rest)'. Unfortunately I suspect he may walk into Johnson's trap and offer detailed plans with a degree of uncertainty over costs. If I were him I'd do what Thatcher did in 79 - write a manifesto on the back of a postage stamp: "Conservatism isn't working".

I disagree with this: Starmer being boring is doing the right thing - our PMs seem to alternate between cavalier and roundhead and Starmer is exactly the right candidate after the venal, mendacious narcissist currently living at Number 10.

I also disagree about Thatcher. She came to power with a very radical and far-ranging assault on the status quo. Whatever you think about her, she was not one to bluff it

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I disagree with this: Starmer being boring is doing the right thing - our PMs seem to alternate between cavalier and roundhead and Starmer is exactly the right candidate after the venal, mendacious narcissist currently living at Number 10.

I also disagree about Thatcher. She came to power with a very radical and far-ranging assault on the status quo. Whatever you think about her, she was not one to bluff it

1. No, we agree, I think Starmer is doing the right thing. He looks dull presently, though, which is hindering his appeal. But hopefully events, dear boy, will allow events.

2. Thatcher did not have privatization or a massive attack on unions in her first manifesto, let alone planned mass unemployment (as far as I recall). 'Labour isn't working' (implying she will create jobs) was the manifesto. Crikey! The stomping boots were put on once she got in.

 

[jimhigham]

Yes, good points. I was even more cross with labour MPs for poncing about in their leadership election to allow Corbyn onto the slate, then allowing any Tom Dick and Harry the gift of a vote for £3 or whatever it was, then wondering how a coalition of doe-eyed teenage Corbynistas, class war momentumists, and massed ranks of prankster tories could hijack the vote and plant the Islington traitor in the hot seat.

I urged labour supporters to vote for anyone but labour so that Corbyn would be trounced and flounce in the last GE but one, but sadly he got enough votes to maintain a bullish hold on his position. Still.....at the end of the day we have Johnson in charge because we deserve him.

It may be useful if Starmer were to ditch his dimmer colleagues from the shadow cabinet, but he will need to inhale some of Johnson's chutzpa to go the full Blair. He looks like he's biding his time right now, probably wise given a GE is a long way off.

Perhaps he may benefit when the time comes by taking a leaf from Johnson's book. 'We leave the EU and worry about whatever comes when we are free'.... 'We leave the tories in opposition and (you can guess the rest)'. Unfortunately I suspect he may walk into Johnson's trap and offer detailed plans with a degree of uncertainty over costs. If I were him I'd do what Thatcher did in 79 - write a manifesto on the back of a postage stamp: "Conservatism isn't working".

Unhappy days.

I genuinely suspect this is his method.

It’s often been said that it’s not enough for people to not want the Tories and that they have to want Labour too. The cost of living crisis has the potential to upend this. If we reach the next GE paying £8 per potato (which we can’t afford to cook) then anybody will look better than the Tory leader.

I’m sure Starmer knows his best policy is to keep quiet, keep the more boisterous lefties in the flock in check, avoid frightening the electorate too much and let cold hard economics do the rest. It’s cynical and none too inspiring but hey! That’s politics.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I genuinely suspect this is his method.

It’s often been said that it’s not enough for people to not want the Tories and that they have to want Labour too. The cost of living crisis has the potential to upend this. If we reach the next GE paying £8 per potato (which we can’t afford to cook) then anybody will look better than the Tory leader.

I’m sure Starmer knows his best policy is to keep quiet, keep the more boisterous lefties in the flock in check, avoid frightening the electorate too much and let cold hard economics do the rest. It’s cynical and none too inspiring but hey! That’s politics.

I hope you're right.

In the meantime he has all the time in the world to work out how to hit the ground running. I hope it works out better for him (and us) than it did for James Bond at the end of OHMSS.

I hope all's well in your world, matey

 

[jimhigham]

I hope all's well in your world, matey

Keeping relatively serene, thanks. The day job reminds me a little too much of Priti Patel’s continued existence but I’ve still got the photography, live music, the Albion and running to keep me smiling.

 

[Lever]

Keeping relatively serene, thanks. The day job reminds me a little too much of Priti Patel’s continued existence but I’ve still got the photography, live music, the Albion and running to keep me smiling.

Good combination.... those are my greatest pleasures too....

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

On radio 5 one caller said that she thought Johnson was Brilliant over Brexit and Covid () but he has to go now, after having a party while the queen sat alone at her husband's funeral. She said she had considered him her Churchill, a knight in shining armour. Sadly I suspect she will fall for his lies again before the next GE.

Another caller moments ago is saying 'Give Johnson the benefit of the doubt, he got a Brexit deal that some at the BBC have tried to overturn, he paid all that money to people during Brexit, and labour want him out because he wins votes'.

Wow. A couple of errors there. There is no doubt, and somehow he's going to have to admit to being either a fool or a knave. There was no Brexit 'deal' and discussions continue. He paid no money - we did. Labour (and everyone else) want him out because it's right - he's probably making labour more electable all the while he stays in office.

What is wrong with people?

All of these ludicrous claims went unchalleneged, presumably because the BBC are frightened of appearing 'anti-Johnson'. I'm more than happy for fools to have their 5 minutes as talking heads, but letting them go unchallenged? Hmmmm.

 

[jimhigham]

All of these ludicrous claims went unchalleneged, presumably because the BBC are frightened of appearing 'anti-Johnson'. I'm more than happy for fools to have their 5 minutes as talking heads, but letting them go unchallenged? Hmmmm.

That’s where James O’Brien comes in. Anybody is welcome onto his show to state their case but any assertions get challenged (and invariably shot down) in seconds. Very good for a laugh but sadly a drop in the electoral ocean.

 

[crodonilson]

A full throated apology

Boris to make a 'full throated apology' to Parliament today. Which seems to suggest his previous apologies have been less than full throated.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Boris to make a 'full throated apology' to Parliament today. Which seems to suggest his previous apologies have been less than full throated.

Should be a cracker.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2fwxzHe2lg

 

[Gwylan]

2. Thatcher did not have privatization or a massive attack on unions in her first manifesto, let alone planned mass unemployment (as far as I recall). 'Labour isn't working' (implying she will create jobs) was the manifesto. Crikey! The stomping boots were put on once she got in.

Not true. The reform of trade union law was virtually the first thing in the manifesto with several measures outlined.

And while there was no talk of wholesale privatisation, there was mention of privatisation of ship-building, steel and the freight.

But there were a lot of other prominent measures: lowering of income tax, tightening of money supply, sale of council houses, removal of import controls and many more. It certainly wasn't a postage stamp set of policies

Read the manifesto here

 

[Barnet Seagull]

I know it us very unlikely to happen and may not even be possible but...

I'd really like to see a vote of no confidence in the Prime Minister/Government. There's a real opportunity to push the Conservatives into a position where they have to very publicly and overtly defend their leader and his actions.

 

[beorhthelm]

I know it us very unlikely to happen but...

I'd really like to see a vote of no confidence in the Prime Minister. There's a real opportunity to push the Conservatives into a position where they have to very publicly and overtly defend their leader and his actions.

Labour or other wont because they know the majority will not carry the motion. no defending needed, just a simple division they'll all follow party whip. everyone sit tight a few more weeks, after the May elections and see the flood of letters to 1922 committee.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Not true. The reform of trade union law was virtually the first thing in the manifesto with several measures outlined.

And while there was no talk of wholesale privatisation, there was mention of privatisation of ship-building, steel and the freight.

But there were a lot of other prominent measures: lowering of income tax, tightening of money supply, sale of council houses, removal of import controls and many more. It certainly wasn't a postage stamp set of policies

Read the manifesto here

Apologies. My memory must deceive me....will take a look...

Edit: Crikey! I wonder where I got that impression from. Reading that . . . . it seems, on the surface, perfectly reasonable

 

[Jim in the West]

On radio 5 one caller said that she thought Johnson was Brilliant over Brexit and Covid () but he has to go now, after having a party while the queen sat alone at her husband's funeral. She said she had considered him her Churchill, a knight in shining armour. Sadly I suspect she will fall for his lies again before the next GE.

I am fascinated by the assertion that Johnson was brilliant over Covid. As you say, this sort of thing goes unchallenged repeatedly, and it's now some sort of "truth" that the UK somehow out-performed the rest of the world. Well, I suppose if you look at death-rates, we're one of the leaders!! We still have circa 2,000 people a week dying from Covid - no major western country has death rates at our level. Many countries seem to have done better with their vaccination programmes (countries like Spain, Portugal, France, Italy, Germany, etc etc). Apparently we opened up our economy before others - but if this is such a wonderful thing, why is our economy forecast to perform so relatively poorly?

 

[Lever]

Boris to make a 'full throated apology' to Parliament today. Which seems to suggest his previous apologies have been less than full throated.

full throated = expressed with or characterised by unreserved enthusiasm or conviction

Sadly 'expression' is the most important term here; style is all important for him, not integrity......

 

[zefarelly]

full throated = expressed with or characterised by unreserved enthusiasm or conviction

Sadly 'expression' is the most important term here; style is all important for him, not integrity......

He's woefully lacking in both style and integrity

I've seen better dressed pissed tramps deliver with more gusto and integrity.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

I am fascinated by the assertion that Johnson was brilliant over Covid. As you say, this sort of thing goes unchallenged repeatedly, and it's now some sort of "truth" that the UK somehow out-performed the rest of the world. Well, I suppose if you look at death-rates, we're one of the leaders!! We still have circa 2,000 people a week dying from Covid - no major western country has death rates at our level. Many countries seem to have done better with their vaccination programmes (countries like Spain, Portugal, France, Italy, Germany, etc etc). Apparently we opened up our economy before others - but if this is such a wonderful thing, why is our economy forecast to perform so relatively poorly?

Because the Government chose to leave the Single Market.