The Obese, Drunks and Junkies

[DIRK STEELE]

from one lunatic to another... jump off a cliff dirk.

I'm halfway down already!! Oh the joys of an iphone....

 

[DerbyGull]

We're way off topic now.

 

[Bulldog]

Oh.. I thought Russia was allied with Britain in the Wars. Without their eastern front we would have been defeated. I may be wrong then... ?

no my friend, i doubt that you are wrong.
the Russians had a non conflict pact with the Germans, They assumed that the war in the west would drag on as it did in the first world war and that would give them a chance to build their forces up to the level they thought they needed.
They offered the Germans a pact that would give them the Black sea and Persia, and Hitler, Europe.
They were sent to a bomb shelter to sign the sgreement and asked, what will England make of this, ribbentrop replied, England is finished, molotov asked, then why are we cowering in a celler!
he refused to sign, the rest is history.
Russia encouraged militant union actions in the west to disrupt our munitions production while they were friends with hitler, this only change in june 1941 when they were invaded,
So in answer to your question, Russia was on our side only after they were attacked, before that they sided with hitler for their own protection.

As a side point, most people dont reasilse that we declared war on Germany for invading Poland, both germany and Russia, invaded at the same time.
germany had annexed Austria, (by popular vote) recovered the Sudetlanland from the checks, (by international agreement), then invaded the rest of the check homeland. so you could say they invaded 1 country before poland.
the russians had invaded finland, estonia, lithuania, latvia, and rumania, 4 countries, before they invaded poland, little wonder that churchill saw the russians as the greater threat and wanted to declare war on both of them,.

 

[DIRK STEELE]

no my friend, i doubt that you are wrong.
the Russians had a non conflict pact with the Germans, They assumed that the war in the west would drag on as it did in the first world war and that would give them a chance to build their forces up to the level they thought they needed.
They offered the Germans a pact that would give them the Black sea and Persia, and Hitler, Europe.
They were sent to a bomb shelter to sign the sgreement and asked, what will England make of this, ribbentrop replied, England is finished, molotov asked, then why are we cowering in a celler!
he refused to sign, the rest is history.
Russia encouraged militant union actions in the west to disrupt our munitions production while they were friends with hitler, this only change in june 1941 when they were invaded,
So in answer to your question, Russia was on our side only after they were attacked, before that they sided with hitler for their own protection.

As a side point, most people dont reasilse that we declared war on Germany for invading Poland, both germany and Russia, invaded at the same time.
germany had annexed Austria, (by popular vote) recovered the Sudetlanland from the checks, (by international agreement), then invaded the rest of the check homeland. so you could say they invaded 1 country before poland.
the russians had invaded finland, estonia, lithuania, latvia, and rumania, 4 countries, before they invaded poland, little wonder that churchill saw the russians as the greater threat and wanted to declare war on both of them,.

Interesting... you know more than me but I suppose it just supports my view that governments are basically the greatest evil on this planet and responsible for billions of deaths. The average person is fine... just trying to make ends meet and live happily...

 

[BadFish]

A banker, a Daily Mail reader and a benefit
claimant are sitting at a table sharing
12 biscuits.

The banker takes 11 and says to the
Daily Mail reader:
"Watch out for the benefit claimant,
he wants your biscuit".

Sorry to get back to the point, but why are we having a go at these members of society when their are many, more deserving of our hatred, anger and bile?

 

[Bulldog]

Despite the obvious problems with their allegiance, we and the world, owe the russians a huge debt for beating the germans, we, even with eventual american help didnt have a hope in my oppinion.
But. i doubt that the russians could have beaten them without us.
We made it so the germans could not concentrate on one front, and that probably cost them the war, we tied down -
100k men and 500 aircraft in norway,
100K men and 10K 88mm anti aircraft guns (when leveled, they became the finest anti tank gun of the war, some russian commentators later said that keeping 10K of these superb guns off the eastern battlefield was the single most important thing we did)
As many as 250k Afrika corp men and 1K tanks and 1K aircraft, spread over the time, all stuck in north africa, but all that would have been deployed against them.
the german navy was stuck in port, they spent billions building subs to fight us, and we provided the russians with hunderds of tanks and aircraft plus supplies from the arctic convoys.
But the single biggest thing we did was to simply refuse to give in. Later on. 43 onwards, they kept as many a 2 million troops and some of their finest divisions on the west wall waiting for our attack. troops that could have made a massive impact on the eastern front.
So, no, i doubt that we could have won that war without the russians, but i doubt that they could have won it without us.

i was on an american board recently and there are some that have been raised with the private ryan, band of brothers generation that didnt even realise we had any troops on d day, they thought it was a 100% americam affair. We really need our own film industry, 55% of d day troops were not american, but who knows it.

 

[Bulldog]

A banker, a Daily Mail reader and a benefit
claimant are sitting at a table sharing
12 biscuits.

The banker takes 11 and says to the
Daily Mail reader:
"Watch out for the benefit claimant,
he wants your biscuit".

Sorry to get back to the point, but why are we having a go at these members of society when their are many, more deserving of our hatred, anger and bile?

That is very simple and very good, sorry if i have drifted a bit but i am a little pissed.

 

[DerbyGull]

A banker, a Daily Mail reader and a benefit
claimant are sitting at a table sharing
12 biscuits.

The banker takes 11 and says to the
Daily Mail reader:
"Watch out for the benefit claimant,
he wants your biscuit".

Sorry to get back to the point, but why are we having a go at these members of society when their are many, more deserving of our hatred, anger and bile?

I like what you've done there

 

[BadFish]

Despite the obvious problems with their allegiance, we and the world, owe the russians a huge debt for beating the germans, we, even with eventual american help didnt have a hope in my oppinion.
But. i doubt that the russians could have beaten them without us.
We made it so the germans could not concentrate on one front, and that probably cost them the war, we tied down -
100k men and 500 aircraft in norway,
100K men and 10K 88mm anti aircraft guns (when leveled, they became the finest anti tank gun of the war, some russian commentators later said that keeping 10K of these superb guns off the eastern battlefield was the single most important thing we did)
As many as 250k Afrika corp men and 1K tanks and 1K aircraft, spread over the time, all stuck in north africa, but all that would have been deployed against them.
the german navy was stuck in port, they spent billions building subs to fight us, and we provided the russians with hunderds of tanks and aircraft plus supplies from the arctic convoys.
But the single biggest thing we did was to simply refuse to give in. Later on. 43 onwards, they kept as many a 2 million troops and some of their finest divisions on the west wall waiting for our attack. troops that could have made a massive impact on the eastern front.
So, no, i doubt that we could have won that war without the russians, but i doubt that they could have won it without us.

i was on an american board recently and there are some that have been raised with the private ryan, band of brothers generation that didnt even realise we had any troops on d day, they thought it was a 100% americam affair. We really need our own film industry, 55% of d day troops were not american, but who knows it.

Fascinating stuff that bulldog, I must admit to being surprised that as many as 45% of d day troops were American. I thought they were predominately British.

 

[DIRK STEELE]

Despite the obvious problems with their allegiance, we and the world, owe the russians a huge debt for beating the germans, we, even with eventual american help didnt have a hope in my oppinion.
But. i doubt that the russians could have beaten them without us.
We made it so the germans could not concentrate on one front, and that probably cost them the war, we tied down -
100k men and 500 aircraft in norway,
100K men and 10K 88mm anti aircraft guns (when leveled, they became the finest anti tank gun of the war, some russian commentators later said that keeping 10K of these superb guns off the eastern battlefield was the single most important thing we did)
As many as 250k Afrika corp men and 1K tanks and 1K aircraft, spread over the time, all stuck in north africa, but all that would have been deployed against them.
the german navy was stuck in port, they spent billions building subs to fight us, and we provided the russians with hunderds of tanks and aircraft plus supplies from the arctic convoys.
But the single biggest thing we did was to simply refuse to give in. Later on. 43 onwards, they kept as many a 2 million troops and some of their finest divisions on the west wall waiting for our attack. troops that could have made a massive impact on the eastern front.
So, no, i doubt that we could have won that war without the russians, but i doubt that they could have won it without us.

i was on an american board recently and there are some that have been raised with the private ryan, band of brothers generation that didnt even realise we had any troops on d day, they thought it was a 100% americam affair. We really need our own film industry, 55% of d day troops were not american, but who knows it.

I agree... bushy does not. Interpretations of history to support our blinkered views I suppose... as ever and always.

 

[BadFish]

I like what you've done there

Can't take credit for the joke, it was posted on here a while ago, just thought it was relevant here.

 

[DIRK STEELE]

Can't take credit for the joke, it was posted on here a while ago, just thought it was relevant here.

Take credit cos you insure this fact is not forgotten....

 

[British Bulldog]

Thank you BB, and my sympathies to you too mate. I was 39 when I finished work, my firms personnel woman made me medically retired. I am 43 now and over most of the depression, although it's still being medicated. The form filling and assessments are nothing short of a nightmare. I hate the fact that i am tied to taking so many pills a day too. But I am very much trying to look forwards rather than back now. I have a very loving wife, who is my main carer so I am lucky in that respect. But I think my three kids have not taken it so well. My boy was 13 when I stopped being able to use my legs much, and found it hard that his dad wasn't able to kick a ball around with him like other dads.

Anyway we are going miles off topic here, and if you ever need to talk BB, you know where I am, perhaps meet up at the Amex for a beer next season if you like.

I know where your coming from with the medication I hate having to take it all but it looks like it's going to be for life so I suppose I better get used to it, And yes a beer at the Amex next season would be nice.

 

[User removed 4]

I agree... bushy does not. Interpretations of history to support our blinkered views I suppose... as ever and always.

I'm not disputing historical facts, so please dont twist things to infer that I am,I am questioning whether morally, we owe the russians anything from ww2, the indisputable facts are that they left us to stand alone while they made a peace pact with the germans, we owe them nothing.

 

[bhaexpress]

I'm not disputing historical facts, so please dont twist things to infer that I am,I am questioning whether morally, we owe the russians anything from ww2, the indisputable facts are that they left us to stand alone while they made a peace pact with the germans, we owe them nothing.

The Russians had made that pact before before the fall of France, on 23rd September in 1939 in fact. Stalin had decimated his senior Army officers thanks to his own paranoia, it's unlikely that had his army been at full strength when the Germans invaded in 1941 that they would have progressed as far as they did. It's worth remembering that it was our convoys to Murmask that provided the Russians with much needed arms and ammunition following the German invasion. The Russians took the brunt of the German army before the Allies started a second from in North Africa but in fact we had to deal with the very real danger of the Submarine war against our convoys. It's rather splitting hairs to argue as to who owes what from events of over seventy years ago.

 

[User removed 4]

The Russians had made that pact before before the fall of France, on 23rd September in 1939 in fact. Stalin had decimated his senior Army officers thanks to his own paranoia, it's unlikely that had his army been at full strength when the Germans invaded in 1941 that they would have progressed as far as they did. It's worth remembering that it was our convoys to Murmask that provided the Russians with much needed arms and ammunition following the German invasion. The Russians took the brunt of the German army before the Allies started a second from in North Africa but in fact we had to deal with the very real danger of the Submarine war against our convoys. It's rather splitting hairs to argue as to who owes what from events of over seventy years ago.

Sorry, but it's not splitting hairs at all, we owe the russians nothing.

 

[BadFish]

Are we arguing about whether Russians should be welcome in the UK because of events that happened before most of them were born?

 

[public school boy]

Were there any Work shy/lazy Drunks, Junkies or Fat bastards in the Russian or German armies?

 

[User removed 4]

Are we arguing about whether Russians should be welcome in the UK because of events that happened before most of them were born?

No we're not , but it doesnt stop people wanting the british to keep apologising for events that happened before ANY of us were born.

 

[BadFish]

Were there any Work shy/lazy Drunks, Junkies or Fat bastards in the Russian or German armies?

I don't think they would have lasted very long. Maybe we should reintroduce conscription?