The great Vicente saga - 2012 edition [All quite exciting in the end]

[Bold Seagull]

I presume the contract was a two way thing ? so what do you think vincente would be doing now if we had turned round and said we dont fancy you We are not going to honour the contract we signed And Poyet is notbacking out on what he said He [vincente ]can go if we get the right fee All the messing about seems to be coming from his end

If in April Vicente had said 'I'm not going to hold the club to the second year, and I'm happy they move me on', then in June decides he is going to hold us to the second year, then I'm sure we'd be pretty pissed off.

 

[Aadam]

I'm merely countering the claim that Gus couldn't have had any weight or legal status with regard to the contract with BHA. I don't know any details of course. I just don't think anyone can be so certain that Gus doesn't carry any legal responsibility on behalf of BHA.

I don't know why everyone is so hooked on this verbal agreement rubbish. It wont hold firm in any court, so stop worrying. It didn't work for Everton against Dan Gosling and it certainly won't work for Vicente. Everton offered Gosling a contract extension which he verbally accepted, however, at the end of the season he walked away. Everton took the case to an independent hearing where it was held by the Football Association Premier League that the verbal offer made to Gosling did not constitute a fully binding legal contract. The same could be said for Vicente, that it does not constitute a fully binding legal contract.

Accordingly this meant that Gosling was no longer under contract with the club and under the FIFA Transfer Regulations, he was able to move for free. It would be very strange if the opposite would happen here. And I believe what Gus has said was more in passing, that if a bigger club came in he wouldn't stand in his way, rather than a full contract offer.

Anyway, I'm sure this will all be sorted in the next couple of weeks.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Like the statements he made about Louis Suarez last season you mean?..Poyet is always shooting off at the mouth without putting his brain into gear.

Which the club distanced themselves from, and had no relevance to BHA. Gus making a statement publicly about a players contract is obviously relevant to BHA, and there is no reason why anyone would not believe it is the club's point of view.

 

[macky]

If in April Vicente had said 'I'm not going to hold the club to the second year, and I'm happy they move me on', then in June decides he is going to hold us to the second year, then I'm sure we'd be pretty pissed off.

i dont think we would have signed a two year then cried about it when we was expected to honour it
In short tough he signed the contract sod him I stil cant see why he signeda two year Could you tell me ?

 

[Zebedee]

Can someone please bring the Vicente saga to a swift end? It is now so tedious that I can barely be bothered to look at this thread. Incidentally, where are the promised new signings; in particular our "gem"?

 

[Acker79]

Incidentally, where are the promised new signings; in particular our "gem"?

Bob Diamond has just been released by Barclays, perhaps him joining us is imminent...

 

[Zebedee]

Bob Diamond has just been released by Barclays, perhaps him joining us is imminent...

Just what we need at the club - someone who doesn't know what is going on under his feet.

 

[Albumen]

Incidentally, where are the promised new signings; in particular our "gem"?

My mate said he saw Greg Bobkin smiking outside the Jury Inn this morning. Don't shoot the messenger.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Bob Diamond has just been released by Barclays, perhaps him joining us is imminent...

i guess we could then play the 'diamond' formation ..cough splutter

 

[dadams2k11]

Can someone please bring the Vicente saga to a swift end? It is now so tedious that I can barely be bothered to look at this thread. Incidentally, where are the promised new signings; in particular our "gem"?

Smoke and mirrors? Hmmmmm

 

[Triggaaar]

No, to dissolve a contract both parties need to agree.

Obviously. So, with the players agreement, a manager could let a few hundred million pounds walk out the door. Not likely.

In this case Gus said Vicente wouldn't be held to his 2 year deal, Vicente accepted that.

You're making that up. Can you post a link to where Vicente said he accepted the offer to not renew? If Gus was in a position to make such promises (which I'm sure he's not) and he made that offer, he could then withdraw the offer at any time up to when Vicente accepted it - so, please show us when Vicente accepted it. If a manager had the power to cancel contracts, they should also have the power to agree contracts, and this is always down to the owner (if that were the case we'd hear the odd story where a manager has agreed to pay someone £150k a week, and the owner isn't happy).

Let us not forget this was a clause. It wasn't a normal 2 year deal, it was a 1 year with an option.

So? That changes nothing.

 

[Exiled in Exeter]

Let’s not forget the Calderon situation which still amuses me – Gus was quite clear he would never play for the Albion again!

5:00pm Monday 10th May 2010
Calderon: I'm sad it ended like this From The Argus)
Poyet, speaking after Saturday’s 1-0 home win over Yeovil in the final game of the season, said: "Don’t get me wrong, I like to help the players and I want the players to get as much money as possible.
“If he had come to me and said he’s got an offer to double his money what am I going to say? You cannot stop people from going but from what I’ve been told he’s had no offer at all.
"There was only the contract to sign. He decided to wait for a possible offer from another club in this division who we cannot compete with (financially). Everyone knows that.
"If somebody thinks we are the Chelsea or Man City of this division we are not, that is Southampton. If they are going to buy the players and pay more than the rest we can do nothing about it.
"We’ve withdrawn the offer. We don’t accept any players agreeing contracts and not signing. We are a proper club. He had until midnight (Friday), so the offer is gone and now he is not going to be our player, I promise you that.
"It’s simple. Six months ago nobody knew him and now he is in the spotlight because of Brighton football club, so I was expecting a little something back.
"He is injured. We took a risk offering him the contract without knowing how long it’s going to take.
"I am disappointed with him and his agent. He did the job very well for the player - he delayed things too much. Inigo was outstanding for us and we wish him well, apart from when he plays against us.”

12:40pm Thursday 10th June 2010
Calderon makes shock return to Albion From The Argus)
Albion have re-signed Inigo Calderon after all.
The Spanish right-back has agreed a three-year contract, a month after manager Gus Poyet appeared to have ruled him out of his plans.
The Seagulls pulled the plug on their offer to Calderon at the end of the season, when he missed their deadline to sign amid interest from Southampton.
Calderon has since spoken to Southampton and was expected to sign for them but he has rejected a more lucrative deal with Saints in favour of accepting Albion's original offer.
Calderon, speaking to The Argus today before jetting back to Spain, revealed: "I think it would have been two years with Southampton. We were still sorting out the terms.
“The money they were offering was better than Brighton. Of course, that is important, but my feelings were for Brighton."

5:00pm Thursday 19th August 2010
Calderon gets the armband From The Argus)
Inigo Calderon will lead Albion into the cauldron of Hillsborough as their third captain in as many matches.
The Spanish defender skippers the team for only the second time at Sheffield Wednesday on Saturday.
Calderon was given the armband on the opening day of the season at Swindon, when Gordon Greer was suspended against his old club.

1:30am Saturday 21st August 2010
What a turnaround for Calderon From The Argus)
Just a few months ago it was inconceivable that Inigo Calderon would be leading Albion out at Hillsborough.
The swashbuckling Spanish defender appeared to have played his last game for the club as, to the displeasure of manager Gus Poyet, he delayed signing a new contract amid interest from Southampton.
As it transpired, Calderon rejected a longer and more lucrative deal with Saints to stay.
Any suggestion that Poyet could forgive but not forget was extinguished by Calderon’s unexpected promotion to the captaincy on the opening day of the season at Swindon in the absence of the suspended Gordon Greer.
With Greer banned again, Calderon is skipper once more for Albion’s toughest challenge of the season away to Sheffield Wednesday.
He said: “It’s complicated for a foreign player to be captain here, because in England people give more importance to the captaincy.
“In Spain it is usually the player that has been at the club the longest. Here it is different. It’s like Gordon. This is only his first year here and he is captain.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Obviously. So, with the players agreement, a manager could let a few hundred million pounds walk out the door. Not likely.

You're making that up. Can you post a link to where Vicente said he accepted the offer to not renew? If Gus was in a position to make such promises (which I'm sure he's not) and he made that offer, he could then withdraw the offer at any time up to when Vicente accepted it - so, please show us when Vicente accepted it. If a manager had the power to cancel contracts, they should also have the power to agree contracts, and this is always down to the owner (if that were the case we'd hear the odd story where a manager has agreed to pay someone £150k a week, and the owner isn't happy).

So? That changes nothing.

Bloodyhell, of course I'm making it up, all any of us can do is draw our own conclusions as to what is going on! Don't be so literal. It does appear that Vicente believed the club weren't going to hold him to the 2nd year, and at the last minute they did. It's an opinion, as is 99% of this thread.

With regard to Vicente's contract, the 1 year deal with an option is relevant, as had we not triggered the clause, there would now be no contract. Gus, on behalf of the club stated that the clause would not be triggered. That is therefore not cancelling the contract in itself, but that once the year was up, he'd be out of contract as the 2nd year wouldn't be taken up. So it is completely different from a full 2 year deal.

 

[Exiled in Exeter]

While I am in the mood for timelines, the ups and downs of the Vicente saga.

9:00am Saturday 21st April 2012
Vicente: I'd love to come back From The Argus)
Asked if the game against Birmingham will be his last at the stadium for the Seagulls, Vicente said: “I hope it isn’t but you never know.
“I don’t know what I’ll be doing. I haven’t spoken to anybody but we will wait until the end of the season.
“I’ll talk to the family, to the manager, to the chairman.
“We need to think about things carefully within the family because we are going to have another child so that makes it more complicated.
“But I really like it here. If I can stay, I’d be delighted.”

5:00pm Monday 23rd April 2012
Poyet: Quality signings will help convince Vicente to stay From The Argus)
Poyet expects the future of the Spanish star with the Seagulls to be governed by the quality of their squad strengthening.
He said: “It’s not very difficult if we get a team that he deserves, as simple as that.
“If we are able as a club to get players who will go with that style of football, who will support him, who understand the game and can make us better, then I think we have got a great chance for him to stay.
“If we don’t the situation changes. There is a big opportunity and, as I’ve said in the past, we are going to decide it probably together with Vicente.
“It can work both ways. In his contract there are options and we need to make sure that we are fair on the players and follow my line in the way I like to treat players.”

5:00pm Monday 21st May 2012
Vicente talks have been positive says Poyet From The Argus)
The Albion boss told The Argus: “Vicente is away but we are in contact with him and I think there is a big possibility he will be with us next season “The situation is very clear. There are no issues. Everything is all right.
“It’s just trying to make sure that all parties are happy with the situation.”
Vicente has kept out of the media since returning to Spain last month.
He said: “I suppose he could get offers but I think we have a great option because he has been playing a lot for us which hasn’t happened in the past.
“Hopefully he puts that into consideration as well.”

9:30am Monday 11th June 2012
Poyet confident despite Vicente link From The Argus)
Poyet was not surprised by the report and said: “Vicente comes from there.
“It’s up to everyone. We’ll see. But I still think we have a great option.”
Villarreal lived down to their nickname – which they owe to their yellow kit – by sinking into the second division last season

10:40am Thursday 21st June 2012
Albion closing in on Vicente deal From The Argus)
Albion boss Gus Poyet has given the clearest indication yet that Vicente is about to commit his future to the Seagulls.
The Spanish star has yet to sign a contract and the finer details of a deal still have to be thrashed out but Poyet believes it is "90 or 95 per cent" certain he will be returning to The Amex.
Poyet told The Argus: "I think Vicente will stay. What we are trying to do is sort out a few little things that will make sure he is staying with us in a better and happier situation with us but I think it will happen at any time.
"We are just trying to sort it out. We cannot confirm if he is going to stay or not because that's not fair. We cannot do something that isn't done but I would say it is a big chance, 90 per cent or 95 per cent that he will stay."
Poyet also revealed Albion are "very close to another two signings that will help him as well."

11:00am Wednesday 27th June 2012
Albion move to keep Vicente but can't agree new deal From The Argus)
Gus Poyet has defended Albion’s decision to extend Vicente’s contract for a year – but admitted they have so far failed to agree a new deal.
The Seagulls last night issued a brief statement to announce they were taking up their one-year option on the former Valencia playmaker.
Poyet expects him to return in time for Monday, when pre-season training resumes in earnest.
The Albion boss said in April Vicente would not be held to the extra year but has put a change in tack down to the club’s efforts to agree new terms.
Second-tier Spanish sides Elche and Villarreal both want to sign Vicente, who would have been out of contract this weekend.
Now Albion have extended that agreement until June 30, 2013, and say they look forward to him teaming up with close friend and former Valencia colleague Bruno, who met the media at The Amex yesterday.
Poyet said: “We were trying to negotiate a new contract and unfortunately we couldn’t agree so we needed to activate the option. That is common sense.
“We want Vicente to play for the club.
“There is a contract signed and we wanted to offer him a new one.
“We could have exercised the option on the day we finished the league last season and then renegotiated it.
“We did it this way around because we thought we had a great chance to negotiate the new contract by now.
“It’s a timing thing more than anything else.
“It would have been amazing to say ‘Vicente is staying and he has signed a new contract’.
“Instead it didn’t happen so we have to say the other news which is still amazing – but not as amazing as everybody would have liked!”
Asked if he expected to see Vicente at training next week, Poyet replied: “Of course. Why not?”
The Albion boss admits Bruno’s arrival is no guarantee his former Valencia colleague will follow.
The Seagulls boss added: “We will see what happens in the next few days."

 

[Exiled in Exeter]

Duplicate post.

 

[public school boy]

Elche, Vicente and his agents also have a case to answer to for negotiating and agreeing a deal whilst the player, Vicente, is still under contract with Brighton, whether a court were to deem the verbal agreement legally binding or not. Because it has been publicised in the press that the club would be willing to let the player go if he was unhappy (or words to that effect), a court might decide that the player does have a legally binding verbal agreement.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Elche, Vicente and his agents also have a case to answer for negotiating and agreeing a deal whilst the player, Vicente, is still under contract with Brighton, whether a court were to deem the verbal agreement legally binding.

Up until last week when the Albion stated there were invoking the 2nd year option, he was effectively at the end of his 1 year contract, and therefore fully entitled to speak to whomever he wanted. It was only when they Albion stated they were triggering the 2nd year, that effectively he was under contract again.

 

[macky]

perhaps the albion feel that he has gone about it in a sneaky horrible little way And are now feeling f*** it

 

[browneggsandham]

Up until last week when the Albion stated there were invoking the 2nd year option, he was effectively at the end of his 1 year contract, and therefore fully entitled to speak to whomever he wanted. It was only when they Albion stated they were triggering the 2nd year, that effectively he was under contract again.

From my understanding he was still under contract until the end of the day on 30/06/2012, and the option was invoked before this time. Therefore at no point was he legally out of contract and entitled to talk to other parties, unless we gave him permission, which I think is unlikely.

 

[Acker79]

From my understanding he was still under contract until the end of the day on 30/06/2012, and the option was invoked before this time. Therefore at no point was he legally out of contract and entitled to talk to other parties, unless we gave him permission, which I think is unlikely.

I believe if you are a certain time period from the end of your contract, you are free to negotiate with anyone if you are over a certain age (I assume 24? the same as when players are allowed to move for free out of contract). So, as the option hadn't been activated at that point, his contract was due to expire this past weekend, so he was within that end of contract period at the time.