The great Vicente saga - 2012 edition [All quite exciting in the end]

[peterward]

But Elche is not "at a better level" though is it ... it sound like Gus would be happy to release him if if it was a good upwards career move.

If you read that quote from Gus though he first makes his statement of fact

"I am not going to use any options if he doesn't want to stay" no condition...... and then he adds his 2 own opinions (but not a conditional part of the first bit)

"because he's too good and because maybe he deserves to be playing at a better level."

look I hope he stays or we get a fee, but Gus comment is black and white and not conditional, I am not a legal expert, but if I were Vicentes agent and a verbal agreement is enforceable, i'd think I had pretty good grounds

 

[Bold Seagull]

I think we al lgot carried away with the sign ing we never took any notice off this

Disappointed, the player publicly blamed the medical staff for his continuing injuries:


"I’m very low animically. I’ve lost all confidence in the medical staff, that's it. I’ve been defending them for the last two years, but I don’t see any of this situation improving, when I’m still not recovered from one injury I get worse, or suffer from another one. They give me an injection and then I can’t move myself for a week because of the pain".[8] "On top of this, then they tell me maybe my injury doesn’t exist, and it is psychological. It's very hard, I can’t stand it any longer. I’ve lost all confidence in the doctor, but I don’t want to be bad to anyone, but the person who loses the most is me, because I can neither play football nor help my teammates. I only ask to play twenty minutes in one go. "That is the worst part about it all, to know that when I have the opportunity to play with good health, things turn out well for me, and I play well, I can help the team," he concluded.

Valencia responded that they would open disciplinary proceedings against Vicente after these statements, citing: 'The club will take the necessary action against the player depending on whether his conduct is considered a 'serious' or 'very serious' offence under internal regulations'.[9] The "injury saga" came to an end when the player was fined €1.200, following controversial remarks made regarding the club's medical staff.
valencia were glad to get rid His personality seems to be one of those who blameseveryone else
Stamps his feet when he dont get his own way Yeah nasty mr bloom makinh him honour the contract he signed

You got wikipedia bookmarked tonight!?

 

[cloud]

Valencia responded that they would open disciplinary proceedings against Vicente after these statements, citing: 'The club will take the necessary action against the player depending on whether his conduct is considered a 'serious' or 'very serious' offence under internal regulations'.[9] The "injury saga" came to an end when the player was fined €1.200, following controversial remarks made regarding the club's medical staff.
valencia were glad to get rid His personality seems to be one of those who blames everyone else
Stamps his feet when he dont get his own way Yeah nasty mr bloom makinh him honour the contract he signed

Well remembered. Wouldn't surprise me if exactly the same thing happens at Elche

 

[sparkie]

Tony and the albion can afford way more expensive lawyers than vicente, even if he has earned a packet in football. I wouldn't worry too much about Gus' quotes.

 

[Aadam]

not neccesarily, even though that simplistically sounds like it should be the case, I just pulled this off a legal Q&A site in relation to verbal agreements (which seeing as they were made in Public may well be explored by Vicente's representatives)

Are verbal agreements legally binding?

"It depends upon the jurisdiction. In many places a verbal contract is just as good as a written one in the eyes of the law - it is an enforceable agreement. However, it can be harder to prove the terms of a verbal agreement as both sides may (and usually will) have different recollections.

However, in some countries contracts are not enforceable unless they are in writing (in some countries the rule only applies to certain types of contract - for example, in England, verbal contracts are legally enforceable except in the one exception of if they relate to the transfer of land, where a written contract is required). Also be aware that in some countries (particularly South American and Eastern Europe) many contracts cannot be enforced unless they have been notarised, and clearly you can only notarise a written contract."

Well that all depends on who the contract is with. It's not with Gus, that's for sure. I could say the same thing, doesn't make it legally binding..

 

[Bold Seagull]

But it's not Poyet's call to make. That's like me promising you a pay rise down the pub when it's not my company or business.

Poyet is an employee of BHA, and in law acts on behalf of BHA as one of its senior representatives in the course of his work. It is therefore nothing like you offering a pay rise down the pub. If Gus makes a statement to the press publicly, it is reasonable to assume that he has executive authority on behalf of BHA to make the statement, otherwise it would be corrected. Everyone who read or heard the statement had no reason to believe Gus wasn't speaking on behalf of the club, and therefore it was representative of his employer.

 

[Rugrat]

That's as maybe. But i'd like to know how you can prove someone actually said something and was not misquoted...Unless it's recorded or something. The spoken word isn't worth a wank in the real world, just like a handshake isn't either.

It is difficult but I suspect the club would stop short of committing perjury, If there are conflicting stories in so much as the club say one thing and Vicente another then that's the role of whoever sits in judgement to decide who gets the vote.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Well that all depends on who the contract is with. It's not with Gus, that's for sure. I could say the same thing, doesn't make it legally binding..

It's with BHA. Gus is an employee in a senior position with BHA, and therefore is privy to the contract as in his role he represents BHA. While contract matters are not his responsibility, his public statements carry weight, and legally it could (and it's a massive could) be shown to be binding.

Any contract in contract law can be dissolved if both parties agree. This applies to any contract written or otherwise.

 

[Jim D]

Poyet is an employee of BHA, and in law acts on behalf of BHA as one of its senior representatives in the course of his work. It is therefore nothing like you offering a pay rise down the pub. If Gus makes a statement to the press publicly, it is reasonable to assume that he has executive authority on behalf of BHA to make the statement, otherwise it would be corrected. Everyone who read or heard the statement had no reason to believe Gus wasn't speaking on behalf of the club, and therefore it was representative of his employer.

Are you saying that these words formed one side of a contract? If so, there needs to be something of value from Vicente in return. What would that have been?

 

[Bold Seagull]

Are you saying that these words formed one side of a contract? If so, there needs to be something of value from Vicente in return. What would that have been?

I'm merely countering the claim that Gus couldn't have had any weight or legal status with regard to the contract with BHA. I don't know any details of course. I just don't think anyone can be so certain that Gus doesn't carry any legal responsibility on behalf of BHA.

 

[drew]

Are you saying that these words formed one side of a contract? If so, there needs to be something of value from Vicente in return. What would that have been?

It's clutching at straws. Who says Vicente needs to say anything of value in return. Ridiculous comment. Gus, in his capacity as manager, had stated, as reported by various press, that they would not keep vicente and hold him to the second year if vicente didn't want to stay. That leaves the door open for Vicente to decide what he wants. The club should have invoked the option straight away but they didn't. Maybe they felt that by offering him a better deal they might have got him for another two years and so were playing nicey nicey but it appears to have backfired. Does remind me so much of the Calderon situation when so many were quick to slate the guy only to be hero worshipping him within days. How fickle are some fans!

 

[public school boy]

If you read that quote from Gus though he first makes his statement of fact

"I am not going to use any options if he doesn't want to stay" no condition...... and then he adds his 2 own opinions (but not a conditional part of the first bit)

"because he's too good and because maybe he deserves to be playing at a better level."

look I hope he stays or we get a fee, but Gus comment is black and white and not conditional, I am not a legal expert, but if I were Vicentes agent and a verbal agreement is enforceable, i'd think I had pretty good grounds

Verbal agreements can be legally binding but need to be proven. Both parties, Brighton and Hove Albion and Vicente, signed a contract which included an extension clause. Unless Vicente can prove that he is not of sound mind or that he signed under duress, I doubt that he has he has a case.

The Law Verbal Agreements - Contracts And Agreements

 

[Triggaaar]

Verbal agreements are not legally binding.

Yes they are. They're just difficult to prove.

 

[public school boy]

Yes they are. They're just difficult to prove.

you beat me to it. you must have posted whilst was amending .

 

[LamieRobertson]

It's with BHA. Gus is an employee in a senior position with BHA, and therefore is privy to the contract as in his role he represents BHA. While contract matters are not his responsibility, his public statements carry weight, and legally it could (and it's a massive could) be shown to be binding.

Any contract in contract law can be dissolved if both parties agree. This applies to any contract written or otherwise.

ye but he doesn't deal with contracts as far as i know...so what he says in that way has no bearing

 

[Triggaaar]

you beat me to it. you must have posted whilst was amending .

Ah well, I agree with your edited post.

 

[JCL666]

I don't care anymore.

In fact it's got to the point where I am more interested in what's happening with Ryan Harley.

 

[public school boy]

ye but he doesn't deal with contracts as far as i know...so what he says in that way has no bearing

He should have checked the contract and I suggest that he would have signed it. The contract would be between the player and his employer being Brighton and Hove Albion.

 

[Triggaaar]

It's with BHA. Gus is an employee in a senior position with BHA, and therefore is privy to the contract as in his role he represents BHA. While contract matters are not his responsibility, his public statements carry weight, and legally it could (and it's a massive could) be shown to be binding.

If that were the case, it would be possible for a disgruntled manager to agree to release every single player from their contract. You could have a team worth several hundred million pounds, and the manager could say to them all 'you can all go and get better contracts elsewhere, with a nice signing on fee' and that would be that.

Even in a senior position, I don't think Gus would have the power to do that.

 

[LamieRobertson]

He should have checked the contract and I suggest that he would have signed it. The contract would be between the player and his employer being Brighton and Hove Albion.

i'm referring to poyet