Richard Carpenter "has had his day" as an Albion player

[Southover Street Seagull]

I'm sorry LI you don't set the parameters of the argument, that Chippy's form was so poor last year does indeed have bearing on whether he still has something to offer if that porr form has continued (which it seems apart from the Forest game is the general consenus). [/B]

The general consensus of who?

I for one think that Carpenter has improved after his poor showing last season. He still has something to offer to this team in midfield all the time we have Mr "Ghost Around The Park" Hammond in the team.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

hmmm....not sure about that- i would LOVE carpenter to have a good season, i would LOVE him to prove me wrong, i would LOVE him to re-create his form of a few years ago

unfortunately i doubt this will happen, he has struggle to create any consistant form now for atleast a year, yet in this time has never, ever been dropped- that's my BEEF

does that count as "slating" then?

You could say exactly the same about Hammond, he is player whose form has been bad for about a year now. Another player who never gets dropped.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

this is the most important point

for our CAPTAIN, and one of the more experianced players in a young squad, he cannot afford to drift in and out of games...yes, he played the odd good ball, he also gave it away, and has done all season

he's a player that younger players...like HAMMOND, need to be looking up to and following. At present, and for the last year or so, this hasn't been happening

In your opinion you think Carpenter's form has been poor for a year or so now. Well then it that case the young HAMMOND has been looking up to and folllowing him beacuse he hasn't offered us much either.

 

[turienzo's lovechild]

In your opinion you think Carpenter's form has been poor for a year or so now. Well then it that case the young HAMMOND has been looking up to and folllowing him beacuse he hasn't offered us much either.

if you read back to when this all started i clearly said that i wasn't bothered which one was dropped

 

[turienzo's lovechild]

i've just noticed that you just posted 6 posts simply quoting people and slating hammond!

could that not have been in one post?

 

[Les Biehn]

The general consensus of who?

Of posters on NSC. Why is it that I have read reports of games and people have been saying in the main that his form has been poor apart from the Forest game and yet when I say this certain people are in denial. Just coz LI didn't do a poll on it it doesn't mean its not true.

Typically LI has tried to paint Tommy and Frag as Chippy haters, hell bent on slagging him off, instead of engaging with the point that his form has been poor. I hope like them that the Forest game is a sign of things to come. However the points the boys and myself have made, that his form in the last year has been poor, have been backed up by the poll I started. Now LI may refute the poll but it appears to me to be more valid in the context of the actual argument than one he started as a means to distort what they meant.

 

[Hannibal smith]

the points the boys and myself have made, that his form in the last year has been poor, have been backed up by the poll I started.

No Les, LI’s poll is actually more relevant. Yours is even more contrived to the result you want. Has Chippy’s form been poor in the past year been poor? Yes, not many would argue but has there been mitigating circumstances? (injury etc) Yes – He was rushed back – I think even McGhee admitted that. Is he playing better now? Yes, he certainly is, so I’d argue that is more relevant than his form 6-12 month’s ago. What manager picks players on form they showed a year ago? Chippy’s best days are behind him but he looks good at this level so far this year.

If there is a consensus amongst most on here who aren’t interested in the dick waving competition between you, LI and the twins is that Hammond, thus far, has been the weaker link in midfield and that Chippy is worth his place in the side.

 

[El Presidente]

Perhaps it would be more relevant to ask WHY Chippy has not been himself.

Once again it comes down to a lack of money. When Chas broke his ankle last season it would have been great if we could have drafted in a replacement, but instead Chippy was rushed back early, clearly not match fit, and was not very effective as a result of it.

 

[turienzo's lovechild]

If there is a consensus amongst most on here who aren’t interested in the dick waving competition between you, LI and the twins is that Hammond, thus far, has been the weaker link in midfield and that Chippy is worth his place in the side.

as i have already said, hammond is also not worth a place in the side. LI just chose to pick up on the carpenter point

 

[Les Biehn]

No Les, LI’s poll is actually more relevant. Yours is even more contrived to the result you want. Has Chippy’s form been poor in the past year been poor? Yes, not many would argue but has there been mitigating circumstances? (injury etc) Yes – He was rushed back – I think even McGhee admitted that. Is he playing better now? Yes, he certainly is, so I’d argue that is more relevant than his form 6-12 month’s ago. What manager picks players on form they showed a year ago? Chippy’s best days are behind him but he looks good at this level so far this year.

If there is a consensus amongst most on here who aren’t interested in the dick waving competition between you, LI and the twins is that Hammond, thus far, has been the weaker link in midfield and that Chippy is worth his place in the side.

The point we were making is that after a year of poor form does he still merit his place? I'm not just talking about his form a year ago but over a prolonged period. LI's poll is relevant but not to the debate of whether Chippy's form merits a place in the team. He did nothing in the first 3 games of the season to suggest his form had improved from last year.

If you read some of my other posts on here you would see that I also think there are reasons to do with injury and age that have hampered his form.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

i've just noticed that you just posted 6 posts simply quoting people and slating hammond!

could that not have been in one post?

Yes I should stop quoting people as often as I do. Must also get my dislike of Hammond off my chest in other ways!!!

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

The point we were making is that after a year of poor form does he still merit his place? I'm not just talking about his form a year ago but over a prolonged period. LI's poll is relevant but not to the debate of whether Chippy's form merits a place in the team. He did nothing in the first 3 games of the season to suggest his form had improved from last year.

If you read some of my other posts on here you would see that I also think there are reasons to do with injury and age that have hampered his form.

Did you go to Rotherham? It was Carpenter's pass that helped in the build up to the goal we scored. I think if you look at the three players that McGhee has used in midfield this seaon Stokes and Carpenter have been as equally as effective where Hammond hasn't shone at all.
You can't talk anout form from a prolonged period, if that was the case you could say Guy Butters is not worth his place in the side as he was very poor when we first signed him.
I agree with you that Carpenter was poor last season and I think one of the reasons was that he was injured for a lot e few of the games he played in. I think you have look at him now on whether his form is good or bad form the start of this season in a different division. What about wiping the slate clean?
Hang on a minute how can I say that when I keep saying to peopl at games that Hammond si no better than last season, it's hard not to compare players from how they played in the past isn't it?!!

 

[Les Biehn]

Did you go to Rotherham? It was Carpenter's pass that helped in the build up to the goal we scored. I think if you look at the three players that McGhee has used in midfield this seaon Stokes and Carpenter have been as equally as effective where Hammond hasn't shone at all.
You can't talk anout form from a prolonged period, if that was the case you could say Guy Butters is not worth his place in the side as he was very poor when we first signed him.
I agree with you that Carpenter was poor last season and I think one of the reasons was that he was injured for a lot e few of the games he played in. I think you have look at him now on whether his form is good or bad form the start of this season in a different division. What about wiping the slate clean?
Hang on a minute how can I say that when I keep saying to peopl at games that Hammond si no better than last season, it's hard not to compare players from how they played in the past isn't it?!!

I think with Chippy he needs to be played sparingly. He is 34 and injuries have caught up with him. I think he still has something to offer but as a squad player, for example if we are leading bring him on as a calm head. I think the crux of the argument (sidesteping the finite details of everbodies posts) is that some of us think that Chippy should be a selectively used squad player while others think he should be playing everygame (waits for screams of how dare you, blah, blah, blah). This is my final opinion and I stand by it.

I do think the problem with Hammond is a tricky one. I believe he has potential and if played in the right role could do a good job butsomething is missing at the mo and he is looking anywhere between average and a passenger. This is a shame because he is a young player who hopefully is capable. The problems with Carpenter and Hammond seem to amplify each other as they are both in the centre.

I genuinely hope the forest game is a sign of things to come for Chippy and Hammond finds some form. Perhaps one needs a rest for a bit, perhaps bring Reid in or try one of the youngsters.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

I think with Chippy he needs to be played sparingly. He is 34 and injuries have caught up with him. I think he still has something to offer but as a squad player, for example if we are leading bring him on as a calm head. I think the crux of the argument (sidesteping the finite details of everbodies posts) is that some of us think that Chippy should be a selectively used squad player while others think he should be playing everygame (waits for screams of how dare you, blah, blah, blah). This is my final opinion and I stand by it.

I do think the problem with Hammond is a tricky one. I believe he has potential and if played in the right role could do a good job butsomething is missing at the mo and he is looking anywhere between average and a passenger. This is a shame because he is a young player who hopefully is capable. The problems with Carpenter and Hammond seem to amplify each other as they are both in the centre.

I genuinely hope the forest game is a sign of things to come for Chippy and Hammond finds some form. Perhaps one needs a rest for a bit, perhaps bring Reid in or try one of the youngsters.

Wholeheartedly agree with you there Les. I am in the camp that Carpenter should be played more often at the moment, you as you say think he should be played more sparingly.
My reason for playing Carpenter in every league game at the moment is that we have no one to replace him. Unfortunately I don't get to see many reserve or any youth games at the moment so I cannot say who would be a good replacement if we have any in the team.
I agree with you on Hammond, he is flattering to deceive at the moment. I beleive like you that he has potential, he showed it at the end of the 2004/05 season with some importnat goal for us.
My problem with him for a while now is that whilst he gets into good goalscoring positions he very rarley scores from them. If he did score a few of those chances I could ignore the fact that he is a passenger in midfield when it comes to tackling and winning balls back.
My solution to the Hammond problem is to drop him for a few games. Hopefully he may get his hunger back?

 

[London Irish]

Now LI may refute the poll but it appears to me to be more valid in the context of the actual argument

I don't have to refute it, it's been totally forgotten and seems to have been mainly used for NSC'ers to discuss their favourite takeaway

 

[London Irish]

Did you go to Rotherham?

Of course he didn't - it's incredible someone should be so dogmatic on Carpenter's form when he hasn't actually seen the evidence first-hand!

 

[Silent Bob]

Carpenter was crap last season, but he has started this season well.

Thread closed.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Carpenter was crap last season, but he has started this season well.

Thread closed.

Quite. Won't stop the tedious windbag dragging it out for another three pages tho

 

[Les Biehn]

Of course he didn't - it's incredible someone should be so dogmatic on Carpenter's form when he hasn't actually seen the evidence first-hand!

Oh dear Steve is playing the superfan card.

I went to the Gillingham game and spoke to people whose opinion I trust about the other 2 games. Unfortunate Steve not all of us can afford to go to all games and have a bird to see who lives 250miles away. But that doesn't mean I can't gauge how Chippy's performances were from people I know who went and seeing the ratings and opinions on here.

At least some of us were going pre 2001 though.

 

[Les Biehn]

I don't have to refute it, it's been totally forgotten and seems to have been mainly used for NSC'ers to discuss their favourite takeaway

Stop the comedy routine, you are clearly no Bill Hicks. I certainly don't remember him holding up a big smilie just to show that he had made a joke. Nice way to dismiss a poll that proves you wrong.