Radio presenters saying the parents where irresponsible (Madeleine)

[Brovion]

The thing about holidays abroad is you can take your children to the restaurant with you where they are, wait for it, welcome - regardless of age. This is a hard concept for British people to understand as over here children in public places where food and drink are consumed are normally welcomed as warmly as an infestation of rats or cockroaches.

 

[London Calling]

What a load of hypocrites some of you lot are! Can any of you who actually have kids honestly say that you have never done anything similar when on holiday with your young kids - by 6 or 7 pm they are tired and ready for bed, you are on a family holiday complex in the sun, the kids go to sleep and you pop down to the bar with your partner for a bite to eat or a drink, checking up on the kids every 20 mins or so - I know I have, and that's basically what Maddy's parents did and that's what pretty much everyone on the complex would be doing! It's perfectly normal and reasonable, not something to be crucified about!

NOPE AND I NEVER WILL.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Radio presenters saying the parents where irresponsi

You are telling me that every parent on holiday in Portugal would leave their 3 year old kids alone in the apartment while they went out for dinner?

yes of course I am ................ don't be a plonker.

If there are no grey areas any parent could look at what they have done and think - well we got away with that. It is about making judgements. Mostly people get away with it. Bad parenting is not only about leaving kids on their own by the way - it can be about smothering them as well.

 

[Starry]

You just can't stop yourself getting a (not so sly) kick in at those poor parents, can you?

Like I said above, anything the media or public say about those parents won't even come close to the way they will be beating themselves up right now. I hope they have a happy ending to their holiday and Madeleine is returned safe and sound, but honestly this is an entirely avoidable situation, bad luck, poor judgement what ever, nothing can excuse going out and leaving three babies unattended like they did.

 

[London Calling]

How long is 'ever' in your context? How old is Arthur?

(I haven't either, for the record, but I also don't feel the need to damn those poor parents at this time)

Why not. No point in doing it later. And its not actually to there face.

 

[Nibble]

I am not a parent so it is hard for me to comment, have there ever been times as a parent that you have done something that resulted in harm (minor or major) to your child and you have wished that you hadn't done it? maybe there were no consequences for you but surely all parents have cut corners at one time or another.

Personally I don't think they should have done what they did but just asking if anyone has personal experience.

 

[BigGully]

I am a responsible parent and my heart bleeds for the parents.

Should they have left the children ??......of course it is obvious now that they should not of left their children for one second, and sadly it looks like they may pay the ultimate price for this decision, however at what level does a parent become irresponsible ahead of giving children a sense freedom and a childhood protected from irrational fear.

What age should a child walk or ride to School

What age should a child be able to play unsupervised

Each responsible parent has a call to make, it can be tough, however thankfully any decision is very RARELY so cruelly penalised !!

I would ask everyone not to be so righteous when commented on such a tragic case.

 

[tedebear]

I am not a parent so it is hard for me to comment, have there ever been times as a parent that you have done something that resulted in harm (minor or major) to your child and you have wished that you hadn't done it? maybe there were no consequences for you but surely all parents have cut corners at one time or another.

Personally I don't think they should have done what they did but just asking if anyone has personal experience.

My problem is that I worry about everything, possibly to the point of being overbearing. Things like when paying for petrol, I take Arthur out of his car seat and into the kiosk. It's a pain in the botty but my brain can't view that as a non-risk situation. I don't want to smother him but I can't rationalise any risk as "good" risk if you understand what I'm trying to say.

 

[Lokki 7]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Radio presenters saying the parents where irresp

yes of course I am ................ don't be a plonker.

If there are no grey areas any parent could look at what they have done and think - well we got away with that. It is about making judgements. Mostly people get away with it. Bad parenting is not only about leaving kids on their own by the way - it can be about smothering them as well.

I have said nothing about bad parenting other than discuss this one very clear and unfortunate example. I will say it agin to be clear, in this instance they were in the wrong. Every case is different but in this one there is no grey area. (IMH plonker O of course)

 

[Brovion]

I am a responsible parent and my heart bleeds for the parents.

Should they have left the children ??......of course it is obvious now that they should not of left their children for one second, and sadly it looks like they may pay the ultimate price for this decision, however at what level does a parent become irresponsible ahead of giving children a sense freedom and a childhood protected from irrational fear.

What age should a child walk or ride to School

What age should a child be able to play unsupervised

Each responsible parent has a call to make, it can be tough, however thankfully any decision is very RARELY so cruelly penalised !!

I would ask everyone not to be so righteous when commented on such a tragic case.

Quite. I think that's the whole point. I've never gone off traveling for 6 months and left the kids alone with just a thousand tins of baked beans and a box of matches. I think that would be quite irresponsible. I've also never gone off for a meal and left them unsupervised as I think that would be equally irresponsible.

However I'm equally sure I've 'done things' and got away with them, perhaps not even knowing I've put them at risk.

 

[Lady Bracknell]

Not being a great fan of package holidays and discovering quite early on in their lives that very small children prefer routine to holidays - it's the parents that need the holiday! - ours weren't taken abroad until they were older. Older meaning about 6 and 7 when they could enjoy and appreciate different cultures, climates, food, etc., rather than get scratchy and cross about things not being like home!

So when very young, we took them on narrowboat holidays where their home routines easily fitted around the holiday. And since leaving them alone would have resulted in someone fetching up in the canal, it was never an issue. Especially since one of them combined cheery insomnia with the escapology skills of Houdini.

But certainly, at home where we had an allotment attached to the end of our (long) garden, I can remember being out there gardening on summer nights while my small children slept in their beds and I doubt I was any nearer to them than Madelaine's parents when she went missing. It never occurred to me that I was either "leaving" my children or being a bad parent since I remained on home territory. And to be honest, I'd be amazed if any parent could genuinely claim their children have never, ever, been out of their sight be that at home or away.

 

[The Wookiee]

Thomson Superfamily holidays - could not fault them.
.

 

[WATFORD zero]

But certainly, at home where we had an allotment attached to the end of our (long) garden, I can remember being out there gardening on summer nights while my small children slept in their beds and I doubt I was any nearer to them than Madelaine's parents when she went missing. It never occurred to me that I was either "leaving" my children or being a bad parent since I remained on home territory. And to be honest, I'd be amazed if any parent could genuinely claim their children have never, ever, been out of their sight be that at home or away.

I have sat in the back garden with a beer on a summers evening while the kids were asleep upstairs. If someone had broken into the front of the house and taken the kids, would it have been that different to what happened to these poor parents.

I decided to let my son walk home from school when he started at Dorothy Stringer. At just turned 11, he walked across from school to Dyke Road, about a 45 minute walk. I thought i was allowing him independance, but if he had been taken, would that have been my fault for bad parenting ? We all have to make our own judgements without the benefit of hindsight.

I can't believe that people are taking this out on the parents who made an error of judgement rather than the really evil bastard who took the child.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

I have sat in the back garden with a beer on a summers evening while the kids were asleep upstairs. If someone had broken into the front of the house and taken the kids, would it have been that different to what happened to these poor parents.

I decided to let my son walk home from school when he started at Dorothy Stringer. At just turned 11, he walked across from school to Dyke Road, about a 45 minute walk. I thought i was allowing him independance, but if he had been taken, would that have been my fault for bad parenting ? We all have to make our own judgements without the benefit of hindsight.

I can't believe that people are taking this out on the parents who made an error of judgement rather than the really evil bastard who took the child.

Spot on - although I not really qualified to judge, as I do not have children (I hope!).

I wasn't a member of the board when Sara Payne went missing. Did her mother face a similar level of wrath from the posters? The children were playing in a field, unattended, and she got snatched on the way back to the house. I don't remember the press making such an issue of 'neglect'.

 

[rospants]

live news conference on sky news at 4...

 

[Publius Ovidius]

I have sat in the back garden with a beer on a summers evening while the kids were asleep upstairs. If someone had broken into the front of the house and taken the kids, would it have been that different to what happened to these poor parents.

I decided to let my son walk home from school when he started at Dorothy Stringer. At just turned 11, he walked across from school to Dyke Road, about a 45 minute walk. I thought i was allowing him independance, but if he had been taken, would that have been my fault for bad parenting ? We all have to make our own judgements without the benefit of hindsight.

I can't believe that people are taking this out on the parents who made an error of judgement rather than the really evil bastard who took the child.

On that point....if we are on the back garden, we always lock the front door and make sure the front windows are shut that means anyone wanting to gt in the house has to go by the back ddor which leads from the garden....does anyone else do that or are we just over cautious?

 

[Lokki 7]

I can't believe that people are taking this out on the parents who made an error of judgement rather than the really evil bastard who took the child.

Don't be ridiculous. Every member of this board would like to see the evil **** strung up. But this is a discussion forum, and on that topic there is nothing to discuss. If we have any doubts about the actions of the parents I think this is a reasonable place to air them as those involved will never view the site, and the issues affect many on the board.
No one on here is "taking it out on the parents" over the abductor and frankly that is very insulting.

 

[Bozza]

On that point....if we are on the back garden, we always lock the front door and make sure the front windows are shut that means anyone wanting to gt in the house has to go by the back ddor which leads from the garden....does anyone else do that or are we just over cautious?

We were discussing something similar to this in the office yesterday morning.

When I was a wee lad, front doors, by and large, were locked by default. You shut the door and it was locked - simple as that.

Then replacement uPVC windows and doors appeared on the scene and, with them, brought the bizarre concept of having to actually physically lock the door with a key, in order for it to be locked. Additionally new-build houses generally had such doors too. Just what was the reasoning behind this 'innovention' ?

 

[BigGully]

On that point....if we are on the back garden, we always lock the front door and make sure the front windows are shut that means anyone wanting to gt in the house has to go by the back ddor which leads from the garden....does anyone else do that or are we just over cautious?

Thats the point guys isnt it ??

You are protecting yourself and your family against something that just wont happen....its a little irrational.......burglary not withstanding.

If you are so willing to protect your kids against this fear of something that thankfully is NEVER likely to happen, how do you square that with the real threat of water, cars, roads, sport, climbing trees and walking to School...........

I think this 'fear culture' is already taking our childrens childhood from them....but when somehting like this happens some will try to justify their otherwise smothering nature.

 

[tedebear]

Thats the point guys isnt it ??

You are protecting yourself and your family against something that just wont happen....its a little irrational...

No and this case proves it. It does, can and will happen. There are sick people in this world, and leaving your children unattended leaves them open to this risk.

You can teach your older child to cross a road, swim, climb a tree etc., but this was a three year old girl.