Public 'Service' Unions to go on strike.

[bhaexpress]

maybe because its a fantasy that these billions of unpaid taxes are collectable or even exist. you really think the inland revenue would let so much go? i note the number isnt even consistant, elsewhere today i read the 60billion region used.

Sadly one of the most incompetent areas of the Public Sector is the Inland Revenue so I would say that the figures are correct. I bet there's more than a few people on here who've had a run in with the IR, I know I have, thankfully they lost.

 

[beorhthelm]

Clearly the unpaid taxes exist, and it also in the nature of such things that accurate figbures are hard to come by.

obviously its difficult to gauge and it will be a moving target, but this number in the £40-60bn range appears to be a new phenomena this past year. the source seems to be from left wing groups apposed to the cuts, rather than a formal, neutral source. i maybe quite wrong, but thats the appearance. if it is so large (i think about a third of total income tax), why did the previous government not address the issue, a government finding an extra 5, or 10 billion can look great? incompetance aside, the IR is apolitical and exists only to collect taxes, surely they would have pushed for the necessary legislation to prevent much of this lost revenue?

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

Sadly one of the most incompetent areas of the Public Sector is the Inland Revenue so I would say that the figures are correct. I bet there's more than a few people on here who've had a run in with the IR, I know I have, thankfully they lost.

The "settlement" between HMRC and Vodafone is interesting. The company had been disputing it's corporation tax bill dating back to around 2002; actual provision made in the accounts (2010 I think) was about £2.5bn, internally it was thought that they might need up to £6bn. "Victory" was proclaimed by HMRC last year at a settlement of £1.2bn - but for whom? Personally, I saw quite enough of tax havens and offshore profit manipulation during my time in Corporate Pharmaceuticals thanks.
Isn't the effective Corp Tax rate for major companies now about 17-18% - ie less than for businesses pay, the personal income tax band and VAT?

 

[User removed 4]

Fraudulent benefit claims reach £1.6 billion,which is bad. However compare that to £42 billion of unpaid taxes which includes £6billion corporate tax and the figure pales into insignificance.

So why is it the media seems to concentrate so much effort on fraudulent benefit claims as opposed to dodgy tax evasion?

This is surely the amount for the blatantly fraudulent, rather than the cant get off the settee and go to work because jeremy kyle is on type of fraudulent , which is far more prevalent and I suspect costs far far more.

 

[User removed 4]

hmmmm unpaid tax figure not consistant...go figure

Way to go...........dude.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

I'm normally quite sympathetic with public workers, especially as none of the economic mess we find ourselves in is of their making, but if they are striking over pensions then they can jog on.

You don't need a degree in economics to see that pension reform is absolute necessity. We had relatives who retired on final salary teacher pensions at 55. One was 85 when she died, her husband is still around at the same age. That is thirty years that the pension company has paid out. And nowadays the situation is even more urgent. For example, being 60 something is not the same pipe and slippers caper that it was 20 years ago. My dad is 66, and plays on the trampoline with his grandkids, and over the past 5 years has cycled the banks of the Nile, the Great Wall of China and run the great Northern run. On the other hand, his two uncles and dad (my grandpa) had all died by his age.

People need to accept that an aging population needs to pay for itself - and that means working for longer. Retirement age should be 70, IMO, maybe even 71 or 72.

Exactly. Final Salary Pension schemes need obvious reform. For instance you start on 18K a year, retire on 100K. The £900 contribution for the 18K salary is now worth 5K (and thats ignoring the employer contribution). Its no wonder there are deficits everywhere. Similarly, you can't expect to work for 30 years and then retire for 30 if you are only contributing the minimum. In time, people lucky enough to retire now on a FSP will be seen as the very lucky ones. No-one in 30 years time will have a FSP.

A FSP is worth about 25% of your pay. When this went in my company, it was worth a 10% cash rise or additional contribution to the new pension. Given the higher numbers who will strike here, I'm sure this can be worth 10-15% cash terms to those in this sector.

 

[kemptown kid]

Reasonable pensions are part of the pay package teachers and other public sector workers receive not a gift or bonus: I understand that many of the schemes are largely self funding and, in any case, public sector workers pay taxes just like private sector workers, though unlike many of the self employed who do all they can to avoid tax, though never turning down public services...Of course workers in the private sector should have decent pay and conditions, including proper pensions, as well - they should join unions and campaign for improvements rather than falling for divide and rule tactics delivered by our old Etonian rulers.
Many of the jobs in the public sector cannot be carried out adequately and safely by older people - would you want your kids to be taught, nursed etc. by people over 60? Living wage pensions are, I suspect, a major contributor to increased life expectancy: obliging people to work longer will save money at the expense of the lives, health and welfare of the elderly - hardly a promising future for us all to look forward to and a very strange state of affairs in one of the wealthiest countries in the world.

 

[fork me]

This is surely the amount for the blatantly fraudulent, rather than the cant get off the settee and go to work because jeremy kyle is on type of fraudulent , which is far more prevalent and I suspect costs far far more.

But is it a cost that can be avoided anyway? I don't see problems with huge amounts of unfilled jobs, meaning that if we did foce those people off their settees and into work, then someone who actually wanted the job wouldn't get it and would be claiming dole.

Having said that, IMO, one of the biggest problems with our benefits system is that you can be worse off going to work. I remember when I was younger, My Dad spent a small amount of time on the dole after being made redundant. With a family of four, the first few jobs he was offered would have, with the cuts in benefit he would have got, actually made him worse off. As dole is supposed to be the minimum you need to live (and yes, times were tough while he wasn't working) how can he possibly work for less with a family to feed?

The amount you lose when you accept low paid work seriously needs to be adjusted so that nobody is worse off by going to work.

 

[kemptown kid]

If employers are not able to pay significantly more than the level of benefits, offer pension provision etc. perhaps they are not in a position to employ anyone...Too many would be entrepreneurs build their own wealth on the backs of under paid employees who will require benefits during and after their working lives to make ends meet. i.e. we all subsidise these so called business men and women. The public sector pension provision - 50 % of earnings after 40 years of work - is surely a reasonable expectation for all of us in our retirements and certainly not a gold plated luxury.

 

[Arkwright]

Pensions wish I understood them, couple of years ago I put £3k into my private pension and on the annual statement the value had reduced by £6K from the previous year.
A mate of mine is a skipper in the Met Police, yes they put a lot into pensions but £150K lump sum and 2/3rds final salary after 30 years service is huge and guarenteed.
Sorry but I tend to agree with the government that Public Servants should work longer, in the private sector we have to so why are they so different.
Also think the government should somehow ring fence private pensions as at the moment they are a complete lottery.
I told you I don't understand pensions!

 

[User removed 4]

But is it a cost that can be avoided anyway? I don't see problems with huge amounts of unfilled jobs, meaning that if we did foce those people off their settees and into work, then someone who actually wanted the job wouldn't get it and would be claiming dole.

Yes, the hundreds of thousands of eastern europeans perhaps ?

 

[beorhthelm]

The public sector pension provision - 50 % of earnings after 40 years of work - is surely a reasonable expectation for all of us in our retirements and certainly not a gold plated luxury.

"kid" nickname might be appropriate if you havent learnt who things work. the public sector pensions are provided by large (15-20%) employer contirbutions. who pays that? then on the other hand, enough is not put aside to sustain potentially 30-40 years of 50% (or even 25%) of their previous earnings. who makes up the shortfall? who is subsidising who?

 

[fork me]

Yes, the hundreds of thousands of eastern europeans perhaps ?

Except that huge numbers of them are going back home because they can earn more.

 

[User removed 4]

Except that huge numbers of them are going back home because they can earn more.

"Huge" numbers is exaggerating it to say the least, and the polski sleps still seem to be doing a roaring trade,not to mention the huge numbers of albanians and romanians still gracing us with their presence, and do you really think they can earn more in eastern europe than here ? do me a favour.

 

[Stoo82]

Except that huge numbers of them are going back home because they can earn more.

Its not they earn more over there, its just a alot cheeper to live.

 

[Samej]

Quite a cheek of the government to say that Public service strikes will affect the lives of Joe public, when they are f***ing around with thier pay and pensions. About time the government stopped passing the buck and making excuses. Billions is being wasted overseas, when the real "crisis" is at home.

Id like to know when the MPs will start bareing thier load of the cuts. Wages, second homes, travel concessions. One rule for one, one rule for the other.

Strike Strike Strike I say.

Sack every **** that strikes BRING BACK MAGGIE

 

[fork me]

"Huge" numbers is exaggerating it to say the least, and the polski sleps still seem to be doing a roaring trade,not to mention the huge numbers of albanians and romanians still gracing us with their presence, and do you really think they can earn more in eastern europe than here ? do me a favour.

I know that the vast majority of Poles I knew working in hotels in Brighton have gone back. They've improved their English over here and can now do better in hotels back home. Of course Stoo is quite correct that the cost of living makes a difference as well. I earn loads less here than I did in the UK, but once you take the cheaper rent (MUCH cheaper, I pay €500 a month for a 3 bedroom house here) and lower taxes into account, I'm actually better off here.

You also have to take into account the huge amount of seasonal work done by Eastern Europeans that wouldn't get people off the dole full time anyway.

 

[User removed 4]

You also have to take into account the huge amount of seasonal work done by Eastern Europeans that wouldn't get people off the dole full time anyway.

I'll take them into account if you acknowledge the hundreds of thousands of shit, menial jobs that lazy , native born british people wont do , preferring to be supported by the state, leaving them to be done by immigrants from all over the world.

 

[DT Withdean]

The reality (long before the banking crash) is that the % of the population bothering to work, out of the shrinking proportion of the pop'n who are of working age .... can't sustain with their hard earned taxes & nat ins, the payment of pensions and benefits for the masses on invalidity benefits, dole, or state pensions (as we live longer) of the growing retired pop'n.

The sums just don't add up.


Or in other words, can a teacher working between just age 22 to 55 working (they still wish), in those 33 years, save enough to say live on 2/3 final salary, from age 55 to 85.
It's impossible.

Public and private sector workers will long term have to wait until say 70 to receive a state pension, and whilst working be made to put a good % away for either/and state/private pensions.

This is gutting for us non-wealthy, but is simple to see. It shouldn't be political. The wealth cannot be printed.

 

[simonsimon]

Why should wealth be inherited ?