Public 'Service' Unions to go on strike.

[User removed 4]

The lifting required to do casual shift as a painter and decorator caused a lot less back strain than regularly lifting people.

Your argument fell at the first hurdle, you've now attempted to jump it again and fallen a second time.

I'd give up while your behind if I were you.

Oh dear , are you really that naive or just playing at it ? why do you think i put "bad back" in the quote marks ? And you conveniently skirted the question as to why there are filipinos,congolese and south africans doing these jobs while we pay people to sit at home knocking out kids, having never worked , who in turn will sit at home knocking out kids who are unemployable, who in turn..............

 

[fork me]

Oh dear , are you really that naive or just playing at it ?

Nothing to do with naivety, just you using a stupid example.

why do you think i put "bad back" in the quote marks

I know very well why you put bad back in quote marks. Because you're making an assumption, however, your example was stupid. Your "evidence" for his bad back being fake, was that he does casual p&d. It was poor evidence, as I pointed out, it's quite reasonable for someone's back to be bad enough that trhey can cope with casual p&d but not the heavy lifting involved in a nursing home job. That's your THIRD failed attempt at that hurdle. I'd SERIOUSLY advise you to give up now, you are looking more stupid with every post.

Your mate MAY be a shirker, I don't know, I haven't met him, but I'm sure as hell that you're not a qualified doctor who's actuially capable of assessing back problems.

? And you conveniently skirted the question as to why there are filipinos,congolese and south africans doing these jobs while we pay people to sit at home knocking out kids, having never worked , who in turn will sit at home knocking out kids who are unemployable, who in turn..............

I've ALREADY answered it. Nursing home jobs are appallingly paid. Someone with kids would be worse off doing that job than they are on the dole. I wouldn't take a pay cut to do a shitty job either, especially if I had kids to feed.

 

[drew]

Oh dear , are you really that naive or just playing at it ? why do you think i put "bad back" in the quote marks ? And you conveniently skirted the question as to why there are filipinos,congolese and south africans doing these jobs while we pay people to sit at home knocking out kids, having never worked , who in turn will sit at home knocking out kids who are unemployable, who in turn..............

The main reason that we had to get overseas nurses to work in the NHS was because of tremendous staff shortages following the last tory government. In 1979 there were 75,000 nurses in training in the UK, in 1997 there were only 25,000. Poor retention of staff contributed to the shortages hence we had to recruit from overseas. You may recall the headlines about waiting lists. Well they would be even longer had we not recruited these nurses. Everyone bangs on about the massive increase in investment in the NHS by labour but a large proportion of that was merely to bring pay and conditions upto an acceptable standard. Unfortunately, they didn't get it right with the GPs many of whom earn considerably more than they are worth.

 

[drew]

If a science teacher leaves teaching at 60, and then becomes economically active in another job afterwards, they won't get their full pension because they didn't stay in teaching for long enough.

But if you know you have to work to 70 and you leave at 60, you can't expect to get the same pension from that scheme as someone who continues until they are 70. Also, you ignore the fact that if they are economically active in another job then surely there should be a pension from that 10 year period!

 

[User removed 4]

Nothing to do with naivety, just you using a stupid example.



I know very well why you put bad back in quote marks. Because you're making an assumption,

I'm not, I and a lot of other people know full well that his back is no worse than mine.

 

[User removed 4]

The main reason that we had to get overseas nurses to work in the NHS was because of tremendous staff shortages following the last tory government. In 1979 there were 75,000 nurses in training in the UK, in 1997 there were only 25,000. Poor retention of staff contributed to the shortages hence we had to recruit from overseas. You may recall the headlines about waiting lists. Well they would be even longer had we not recruited these nurses. Everyone bangs on about the massive increase in investment in the NHS by labour but a large proportion of that was merely to bring pay and conditions upto an acceptable standard. Unfortunately, they didn't get it right with the GPs many of whom earn considerably more than they are worth.

I'm not on about nurses , I'm on about the people wiping arses etc, and before you ask , yes i would if thats all that was available.

 

[User removed 4]

I've ALREADY answered it. Nursing home jobs are appallingly paid. Someone with kids would be worse off doing that job than they are on the dole. I wouldn't take a pay cut to do a shitty job either, especially if I had kids to feed.

So your (laughable) solution is to import 3rd world labour while paying people to sit at home?

 

[fork me]

But if you know you have to work to 70 and you leave at 60, you can't expect to get the same pension from that scheme as someone who continues until they are 70.

Quite, which is why saying a teacher has to work until 70 to get a full pension, knowing that a large proportion of the population won't be capable of doing so is stupid.

Also, you ignore the fact that if they are economically active in another job then surely there should be a pension from that 10 year period!

That's not a fact it's an assumption. The chances are that someone qualified as a teacher having to take another job at age 60 will end up in low paid unskilled labour at a much lower pay rate.

 

[fork me]

So your (laughable) solution is to import 3rd world labour while paying people to sit at home?

Where have I given that as a solution?

I'll answer for you, nowhere. I haven't said it.

Another of your stupid assumptions.

I'm pleased for your sake though, that you've finally given up on that first hurdle, your repeated failures were starting to get embarrassing.

 

[User removed 4]

Where have I given that as a solution?

I'll answer for you, nowhere. I haven't said it.

Another of your stupid assumptions.

I'm pleased for your sake though, that you've finally given up on that first hurdle, your repeated failures were starting to get embarrassing.

I havent given up with anything , all you've done is repeat the same mantra so many times you believe it yourself, with a degree in microbiology you're obviously not thick, but you're seriously not worldly wise , honestly, you need open your eyes to not only the blatant abuses of the benefit system, but to the wholesale failure of our educational system to certain strata of society, in fact to the whole culture that allows people to simply decide not to work, it happens and is widespread, you either choose to ignore it because it doesnt fit in with your politics , or as i said , you're just naive and not particularly streetwise.

 

[fork me]

I'm not on about nurses , I'm on about the people wiping arses etc, and before you ask , yes i would if thats all that was available.

Even if it made you worse off financially?

If THAT'S true, then you're a mug.

 

[fork me]

I havent given up with anything , all you've done is repeat the same mantra so many times you believe it yourself, with a degree in microbiology you're obviously not thick, but you're seriously not worldly wise , honestly, you need open your eyes to not only the blatant abuses of the benefit system,

Again, I haven't denied that there are blatant abuses of the benefit system, I know there are but none of that is relevent to the discussions being had here. And you tried to accuse me of erecting smokescreens?

but to the wholesale failure of our educational system to certain strata of society, in fact to the whole culture that allows people to simply decide not to work, it happens and is widespread, you either choose to ignore it because it doesnt fit in with your politics , or as i said , you're just naive and not particularly streetwise.

Of course it happens. However, none of that alters the FACT that there are more people actively looking for jobs than there are jobs, making these shirkers irrelevent. Nor is immigration the problem. Immigrants tend to do work, either that is higly skilled and we just don't have the workforce for those jobs (largely due to successive governments shortsightedly underspending on education) or because it's hoorendously low paid jobs that local people simply can't AFFORD to do.

It's a FACT that if you have a family and take a low paid job you will lose more in benefits than you will gain for working. That's a situation that SERIOUSLY needs to be addressed. The benefits system urgently needs overhauling so it isn't actually beneficial not to work. Until it's addressed, and properly, the situation won't improve.

People with familes taking up low paid jobs should keep enough benefits so they are actually better off by working, as their pay increases the benefits can then be gradually removed. It's the only way to get people back into work. By the way, I remember you being one of the people supporting all the government cuts leading to huge reduncancies on the public sector, it isn't exactly the economic equivalent of rocket science to work out that this means even more people chasing the same jobs.

 

[User removed 4]

Even if it made you worse off financially?

If THAT'S true, then you're a mug.

No, just someone with a bit of personal pride, something you quite clearly havent got.

 

[fork me]

No, just someone with a bit of personal pride, something you quite clearly havent got.

Me? I've never signed on in my life. But then I went to the effort of getting myself qualified.

I don't think there's anything to be proud of in letting yourself get ripped off.

More importantly, the people who would normally be worse off have a family to feed. Feeding your kids should be a way higher priority than misplaced "personal pride".

 

[Dandyman]

Don't know why people are worried about pay and pensions. We obviously just need to follow the example of this lot:


FTSE bosses give themselves 32% pay rise | This is Money


31 May 2011,

The bosses of Britain's 100 biggest companies have banked huge pay increases despite the economic crisis.


The average earnings of chief executives in the FTSE 100 jumped 32% in 2010, and the heads of blue-chip firms such as Marks & Spencer and Tesco took home an average of £3.5m each, according to a report by City consultancies MM&K and Manifest.
The top earner was Michael Spencer, the former Conservative Party treasurer who runs City broking firm Icap, on £23.7m.

Mick Davies, head of mining giant Xstrata, was paid £21.2m, and Bart Becht, of Reckitt Benckiser, which owns brands such as Nurofen, Cillit Bang and Vanish, received £17.7m.

While boardroom pay soared, the FTSE 100 index rose by only 9% and salaries for many hard-pressed workers were frozen or even cut.

The researchers said remuneration committees appeared to be struggling to maintain their independence from chief executives, and were adopting increasingly expensive, short-term reward strategies.

It added that the heads of FTSE 100 firms had seen their pay packets quadruple during the past 12 years, despite the fact that share prices have not risen during the same period.

The report warned that many companies were shifting away from long-term incentives to annual bonuses, mirroring the approach that caused problems in the banking sector.

It added that most remuneration strategies now involved the use of long-term incentive plans (LTIPS), which measured performance over just three years, compared with a seven-to-10-year horizon a decade ago.

The research found that larger companies tended to have complex schemes with multiple reward thresholds, but under these chief executives typically enjoyed rewards for 'even the most basic levels of performance', regardless of whether they produced 'exceptional outcomes' for the company or not.

The poor performance of Britain's leading companies is bad news for millions because their pensions are invested in the FTSE 100 index.

Small investors - many of them pensioners - have not seen their incomes increase nearly as much as bosses.

Brendan Barber, general secretary of the TUC, said pay for chief executives 'bears little resemblance to economic reality'.

 

[fork me]

Ni surprises there. Those at the bottom told to tighten their belts, those at the top look after themselves.

 

[melias shoes]

As much as I loathe the Tories.

You don't say.
You lefties want to get your heads out of the sand and wake up to who caused the problems in the first place.

 

[fork me]

You don't say.
You lefties want to get your heads out of the sand and wake up to who caused the problems in the first place.

Errr, the banks. We already know that.

 

[melias shoes]

Errr, the banks. We already know that.

Yes, you are correct,but Brown and his cronies made absolutely sure the country was totally screwed. Spending everything that was left to spend,knowing full well that they won't be around to clear the mess up. I wonder if the unions would be willing to strike if their poodles had managed to stay in power.I somehow doubt it.

 

[fork me]

Yes, you are correct,

I know, I generally am.

but Brown and his cronies made absolutely sure the country was totally screwed. Spending everything that was left to spend,knowing full well that they won't be around to clear the mess up.

Nonsense. Pure unadulterated rubbish.

I wonder if the unions would be willing to strike if their poodles had managed to stay in power.I somehow doubt it.

I was a rep for MSF (now part of UNITE) for 9 years and for the NUT for 11 years. In all that time, I've been on strike once, with the NUT, and yes, it was the nu-Labour government we were striking against. It's also worth noting that this time the first teaching union to vote to strike was the ATL. They are the most right wing of the teaching unions, known for normally supporting the Tories and having a general no strike policy. This will be the first time that ATL have EVER gone on strike in schools.