Public 'Service' Unions to go on strike.

[fork me]

Really , how much do we spend on our space programme ?

About £268 million in 2008/9.

Their budget was increased by a further £10m in this years budget.

HTH

 

[User removed 4]

About £268 million in 2008/9.

Their budget was increased by a further £10m in this years budget.

HTH

Ok , so we spend £268 million on OUR space programme, I assume by the tart " HTH " that you're happy that we spend the same on India's , by default ?

 

[fork me]

£22k is the starting point though - you are guaranteed pay rises of just under £2k per year for the first 5 years until you hit the top of the band at £31.5k. As a point of order NQTs have a reduced timetable

Yeah, one or two lessons less in a week in most schools. Not even close to the extra time it takes them to prepare lessons and mark books due to inexperience.

 

[fork me]

Ok , so we spend £268 million on OUR space programme, I assume by the tart " HTH " that you're happy that we spend the same on India's , by default ?

You can assume whatever you want...

...doesn't mean you'll be right though.

 

[User removed 4]

You can assume whatever you want...

...doesn't mean you'll be right though.

Though I've no doubt I am in this case.

 

[sten_super]

Now compare that wage to other jobs that require similar qualifications (ie a full degree + 1 year post grad). It's crap money. The pensions not as great as people claim either, the average teacher pension (for people going full term) is just £9000 a year. I couldn't live on that.

I agree that the starting wage isn't great. However as I pointed out they are guaranteed pay rises every year for the first 5 years, even now. Show me a job in the private sector that carries a similar guarantee. I completely reject any argument that the pension isn't great - they get 1/60th of their average wage as a perpetuity for every year of service. My wife recently got her (12 month out of date) pensions update - after less than 3 years in the profession her pension upon retirement was already worth £1,200 per year. My total pension pot after 3 years of similar earnings was about £4,500 (incidentally all of my own without any employer contributions) - what kind of perpetuity would I get for that much lump sum?

As to the holidays, most teachers work far longer than average people during term time, having worked both as a teacher and in "other jobs", I know I've never worked as long hours anywhere as I did when teaching in the UK. It was normal for me to be in school by 8, not leave til 5 or 6 and still have 3 hours work to do at home.

As I said previously I accept that the total hours worked are about the same for teachers as people in other professions - as such I think they should get a compensation package of a similar level. I'm not convinced that they do at the moment, and the pension is the biggest discrepancy.

 

[El Presidente]

I agree that the starting wage isn't great. However as I pointed out they are guaranteed pay rises every year for the first 5 years, even now. Show me a job in the private sector that carries a similar guarantee. I completely reject any argument that the pension isn't great - they get 1/60th of their average wage as a perpetuity for every year of service. My wife recently got her (12 month out of date) pensions update - after less than 3 years in the profession her pension upon retirement was already worth £1,200 per year. My total pension pot after 3 years of similar earnings was about £4,500 (incidentally all of my own without any employer contributions) - what kind of perpetuity would I get for that much lump sum?

I think you are wrong about the Teacher's pension scheme, it is 1/80 of wage not 1/60, and has been reduced as a result of the matching to CPI rather than RPI. Still worth being in the scheme though.

 

[sten_super]

I think you are wrong about the Teacher's pension scheme, it is 1/80 of wage not 1/60, and has been reduced as a result of the matching to CPI rather than RPI. Still worth being in the scheme though.

My wife joined in 2007 so gets 1/60th with no lump sum - if you joined before that it's 1/80th for every year plus 3/80ths as a lump sum upon retirement.

 

[Spiros]

I think it's Audi these days. I was reading recently that they're having record sales....if only WE could make something then we could have some money from these developing nations as well. But oh no, we just continue to peddle financial services and high street tat.

I remember those days, but then unions decided that their members DESERVED a higher wage for their working week and went on strike to get it. The companies concerned either went out of business because they couldn't compete or moved the main work to countries where they could get cheaper similar quality labour. Seems that the likes of Audi were better at providing a quality product to the world market at a reasonable price than their handicapped 'competitors' (eg Rover) in the UK.

 

[withdeanwombat]

I'd want more than £22k to step into a classroom and attempt to educate the masses. It's a difficult, often stressful, and very responsible job which goes well beyond the scope of simply standing in front of kids and teaching them.

I know a number of teachers and know a lot of what goes on, the abuse they have to put up with, the lack of support from parents (this in itself is quite shocking) the rubbish facilities and the long hours. I could not do it but I have a lot of respect for those that choose to. If you want a better society I suggest you support the people that try and make this happen on a daily basis, instead of just seeing 6 weeks holiday in the summer and complaining.

They deserve better, a lot better.

Bloody hooray !

Have a look at schools and colleges.They are staffed by the best qualified concentration of people who could MOSTLY command better wages elsewhere,yet they put up wiith the conditions you describe and,whilst having longish blocks of holiday typically have no money to spend during them.So it's camping and cottages in the UK when they could be cashing in on their qualifications and heading for the Maldives with the other bankers.

 

[bhaexpress]

I'm not a huge fan of various sections of the Public Sector but on the other hand most of them do jobs that many just don't want to do. They may have their failings but don't we all ? The pension was always the one thing that made so many tiresome but needed jobs worth while. I don't blame Public Sector workers for being irate.

 

[APACHE]

You'll all missing the point. Private sector, piss poor pay,conditions and pensons.Also jobs disappearing and no union to fight for you.The Goverment is not interested in improving things for you it wants to drag the rest of the workforce down to your level.I t's intension is to take us back to the 30's when you took what they gave you and the rich got richer and we know what happen to the rest.Once the unions are destroyed do you really think the bosses will worry about your conditions,It will be take it or leave it.Good luck with getting to pension age or even having one.

 

[beorhthelm]

The Goverment is not interested in improving things for you

this may come as a shock, but they are not actually supposed to, there purpose is to govern, not improve your lot. thats for you to do. They should only ensure there is a base line of equality, recourse in law to arbitrate differences and prevent abuses.

 

[APACHE]

Again you're missing the point of the argument, slowly the Cons are changing the ground rules,your rights in the workplace are disappearing.It will soon be that you have no right to strike for better pay, better conditions, better pension. It took 2 world wars and countless union battles to get what you've got now.The Cons have always been against bettter education,healthcare, pay,pensions for the working person.The 1st rule of goverment is for the people, not against the people.

 

[beorhthelm]

slowly the Cons are changing the ground rules,your rights in the workplace are disappearing.

could you cite a single workplace right that has been removed under this government?

i'm not sure how you can say "the Cons" are against better education, healthcare, pay and pensions for the working person. they are their voters. and Labours and Liberals. Parties just have differing views on exactly what is "better", who pays for it, and how its administrated. the government is not against the people simply because some unions are against them. most people are not actualy in unions, they dont seem to need them as they realise the government, any and all of the past generations, progressively have given us and continues to provide sensible protection against the excesses of employers. the unions won many of those rights, but they've had their day and now serve little purpse in this area. (certainly still have a place to assist individuals in individual cases)

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Again you're missing the point of the argument, slowly the Cons are changing the ground rules,your rights in the workplace are disappearing.It will soon be that you have no right to strike for better pay, better conditions, better pension. It took 2 world wars and countless union battles to get what you've got now.The Cons have always been against bettter education,healthcare, pay,pensions for the working person.The 1st rule of goverment is for the people, not against the people.

errr ..... I hate to break it to you but neither World War had anything to do with winning better working conditions.

 

[kalinski]

Lets not forget the f**king scroungers and benefit cheats who have been screwing this system for years. The ones who found it easier to sit on their arse all day and take free money, while the rest of us bust our gut and pay our taxes.

Fraudulent benefit claims reach £1.6 billion,which is bad. However compare that to £42 billion of unpaid taxes which includes £6billion corporate tax and the figure pales into insignificance.

So why is it the media seems to concentrate so much effort on fraudulent benefit claims as opposed to dodgy tax evasion?

 

[beorhthelm]

Fraudulent benefit claims reach £1.6 billion,which is bad. However compare that to £42 billion of unpaid taxes which includes £6billion corporate tax and the figure pales into insignificance.

So why is it the media seems to concentrate so much effort on fraudulent benefit claims as opposed to dodgy tax evasion?

maybe because its a fantasy that these billions of unpaid taxes are collectable or even exist. you really think the inland revenue would let so much go? i note the number isnt even consistant, elsewhere today i read the 60billion region used.

 

[kalinski]

maybe because its a fantasy that these billions of unpaid taxes are collectable or even exist. you really think the inland revenue would let so much go? i note the number isnt even consistant, elsewhere today i read the 60billion region used.

hmmmm unpaid tax figure not consistant...go figure

 

[fork me]

maybe because its a fantasy that these billions of unpaid taxes are collectable or even exist. you really think the inland revenue would let so much go? i note the number isnt even consistant, elsewhere today i read the 60billion region used.

Clearly the unpaid taxes exist, and it also in the nature of such things that accurate figbures are hard to come by.

Maybe we need some lateral thinking like the Irish did in 1988. They declared a tax amnesty and invited people to come into a tax office and offer a payment. If it was accepted, they closed the book on that individual/company and started afresh. Loads of people who would never have been caught coughed up, it raised I£500m in a year. Not only that, but the caseload for the Irish Inland revenue was so reduced afterwards that they caught lots of people they wouldn't have done otherwise afterwards.