Pride - who will it be ?

[Wozza]

Sexuality is a learned process, sometimes from very early on, and taken from experience (directly or indirectly) from a whole host of sources, from playground banter to seeing porn to (unfortunately for some people) physically experiencing at a young age, and all points inbetween. From there, we learn and (in most cases) understand our sexual orientation. Whether society any given person lives in allows us the freedom to express that sexuality depends on the context.

Wow. So kids are more likely to end up homosexual if they grow up in Brighton and exposed to all the gayness?!

 

[pornomagboy]

john boy and statto....



























shit they will be a the crickett

 

[Lokki 7]

However, to themselves, some people are gay and just accept it and get on with it. Others, however, feel th need to repress this notion within themselves - even though acknowledge it to themselves ("I am gay, and I don't like it..." etc), and this is usually because of their societal circumstances, the reasons for which, again, can be many and varied.

What a load of jumbled nonesense. Of course people are born gay. I'm surprised this is even an issue for debate.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I'm not convinced one way or the other whether it's nature or nurture (or probably a bit of both)

But this thread does prove conclusively that people are born stupid

 

[The Large One]

What a load of jumbled nonesense. Of course people are born gay. I'm surprised this is even an issue for debate.

I assume you're being ironic.

 

[Cian]

I assume you're being ironic.

:thud:

 

[The Large One]

Wow. So kids are more likely to end up homosexual if they grow up in Brighton and exposed to all the gayness?!

Not necessarily. However, if they are, it's probably going to be far less of a social stigma to admit any homsexual tendencies than if they lived in other places where it's not so open.

 

[The Large One]

:thud:

Well hang on. Where's your evidence to support the notion that you are born homosexual other than anecdotal? People are born with no sexual tendencies whatsoever. Like any preferences in life, they are learned.

Lokki, I'm equally amazed that people are blind to the notion that in so many cases - in fact most of them, it's nurture that defines our choices. You are no more born homosexual than you are born a Brighton fan, or as smoker or a postman or a socialist or a fascist.

 

[Clothes Peg]

Not necessarily. However, if they are, it's probably going to be far less of a social stigma to admit any homsexual tendencies than if they lived in other places where it's not so open.

According to the textbook I am currently reading. Current theory suggests that your geographical and societal location are not solely responsible for your sexual orientation. They can however, encourage, permiss or forbid homosexual behaiviour. This then means that people are more likely to be "out-gay" in a liberal society. It does not mean that it makes them gay. They are just more likely to express it. This can apply to location, social class, gender, ethnicity and race.

Many people associate homosexuality with deviance. Sociologically, we cannot apply the same approaches to both. It is now commonly accepted that people are not born criminal through biological determiners. This is NOT the same when applied to homosexuality.

 

[The Large One]

According to the textbook I am currently reading. Current theory suggests that your geographical and societal location are not solely responsible for your sexual orientation. They can however, encourage, permiss or forbid homosexual behaiviour. This then means that people are more likely to be "out-gay" in a liberal society. It does not mean that it makes them gay. They are just more likely to express it. This can apply to location, social class, gender, ethnicity and race.

Many people associate homosexuality with deviance. Sociologically, we cannot apply the same approaches to both. It is now commonly accepted that people are not born criminal through biological determiners. This is NOT the same when applied to homosexuality.

OK, if this is the case according to current theory, what are the factors which dictate that you cannot apply the same approaches to criminality and homosexuality?

 

[Cian]

OK, if this is the case according to current theory, what are the factors which dictate that you cannot apply the same approaches to criminality and homosexuality?

:thud: again

Are you seriously comparing the two?

I'm really not sure I can believe what I'm seeing here.

 

[Clothes Peg]

OK, if this is the case according to current theory, what are the factors which dictate that you cannot apply the same approaches to criminality and homosexuality?

Because apparently, there is no biological difference between a criminal and a non criminal. Yet, there is research into whether there is a difference between a homosexual and hetrosexual individual. Hormonal etc... No conclusions yet.

Criminality is not stable. It's variable according to the way society views the offence. So you can't say that what someone does is wrong or right in the act itself, it's the common acceptence of society that defines deviance. Homosexuality is stable; you either do like the same sex, or you don't, regarless of what society thinks.

 

[Lokki 7]

Well hang on. Where's your evidence to support the notion that you are born homosexual other than anecdotal?

For starters, there are many documented instances of 'gay' animals. But look at it another way, I assume that you are hetro-sexual. Is there any kind of cultural or social influence that would make you sexually attracted to men?

 

[CHAPPERS]

I like the way gay men smell sometimes , this would make me fancy one.

And plus if he was all BIG and STRONG like Sawyer from Lost or maybe Bear Gryllz or something.

Yummy.

 

[Clothes Peg]

For starters, there are many documented instances of 'gay' animals. But look at it another way, I assume that you are hetro-sexual. Is there any kind of cultural or social influence that would make you sexually attracted to men?

Also, I know a pair of 17 year old twins. One is gay, one is straight. They would have had exactly the same upbringing. So it's unlikely that the environmental factors made one gay but not the other.

 

[The Large One]

For starters, there are many documented instances of 'gay' animals. But look at it another way, I assume that you are hetro-sexual. Is there any kind of cultural or social influence that would make you sexually attracted to men?

First, I'm sure there are 'gay' animals. However, if you can understand animal society and the reasons for their behaviour, you can answer that conclusively. I don't know.

Are there cultural influences to make me sexually attracted to men? Probably. If you are asking me to tell you what they are, I possibly could not tell you definitively. But there would probably be a whole host of reasons.

However, what I was seeking to do was challenge your absolute notion that we are born gay. For every point you're saying that the answer lies in geneticsm, I would like to think that I can put across the case that there is enough doubt to say that there are other influences at play.

 

[Lokki 7]

However, what I was seeking to do was challenge your absolute notion that we are born gay.

Why challenge it when I am right and you are clearly wrong?

 

[Cian]

Why challenge it when I am right and you are clearly wrong?

Indeed.

Seeing someone claim its not from birth is not quite as hilarious as heterosexuals claiming its a choice, mind.

 

[Buzzer]

I assume you're being ironic.

nope. I think it's far more nature than nurture.

Stands to reason - otherwise a gay person would have all gay brothers and sisters.

 

[NMH]

Why shouldn't they 'marry'?

The others I can sort of understand even if I don't agree with, but what is wrong with civil partnerships?

It's giving social legitimacy to a sexual perversion.
Similarly, if you had a ceremony for, say, a dog to a woman. Sure, the dog might instigate the sexual relations simply because it has the urges, but whatever they do behind closed doors in privacy doesn't mean it's suddenly supported by society.
Same applies to the dog and woman adopting children.

I realise that you gays are never going to see this the same way as me, you have accepted, embraced, and usually indulged in, and are living a gay life - so there's no way you are going to say "NMH has a point there, I really ought to see it his way".

Before you also then try saying I'm a 'racist equivalent' or a nazi - hold your pink horses. I have worked with and been friends with gays, lived next to The Castro in San Fransisco, eaten at restaurants and shopped in that village as well as Kemp Town, even driven gay Brazillian Carnaval dancers in a street parade there. That's not so you can give me sarcastic congrats either. If they started kissing in the back of my car, they'd have walked.