NSC's EU Vote

[Lord Bracknell]

Anyway ... as I'm sure our resident fire fighter can confirm ... the most important thing to know about fire extinguishers is that THEY DON'T PUT OUT FIRES.

 

[pseudonym]

I keep hearing the uk will end up a second tier country, on the outside looking in they all say, 'The UK will end up like Switzerland' is the cry, well if being a second tier country is ending up like Switzerland i will have some of that, bring it on.

 

[larus]

It seems to me that as a country we make/lose most of our GDP through the financial sector whether we like it or not.
If we leave, we will be outside, margianalised while all our business goes to Germany and France in the financial sector and the effect would be catastrophic.
I would like to see some major changes, but if we pull out we could be living in permanent depression.

Yep, just like poor, poor Switzerland. How they ever get by really amazes me. They must be so depressed, they can't even trade by sea as they are land locked, it all has to go through those nasty Euro countries. It's time for them to turn the lights out.

Any more bright ideas

 

[Bigbelly]

Leave and stick two fingers up to the loony lefties.

 

[DTES]

I'd forgotten that completely idiotic idea - went against all UK fire service recommendations. So now all extinguishers are red and you have to be able to read ( or hopefully not be dyslexic ) to be able to tell what is in it ! Only a moron would come up with that idea !

Being completely colourblind, I'm quite glad that the difference between different extinguishers is in the writing in large font on them rather than their colour... (Not that I'd use this a pro-EU argument, mind...)

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Being completely colourblind, I'm quite glad that the difference between different extinguishers is in the writing in large font on them rather than their colour... (Not that I'd use this a pro-EU argument, mind...)

It always was before - the EU just made all the COLOURS the same - fine for colour blind people but for those not it was far easier to recognise the correct device for the type of fire by colour.

 

[Buzzer]

Being completely colourblind, I'm quite glad that the difference between different extinguishers is in the writing in large font on them rather than their colour... (Not that I'd use this a pro-EU argument, mind...)

They always also had large writing on them, if I recall correctly.

EDIT - beat me to it, WS.

 

[Marshal Josip Tito]

The thing is, the only European countries doing well outside of the EU are Norway and Switzerland. The Norwegians have a lot of land and a wealth of natural resources they don't wish to share and the Swiss pride themselves on their neutrality. However both countries have fairly extensive agreements which mean they are near enough EU members, when compared with, say, Albania.

Norway has a significantly smaller population than Britain so can share out the wealth from its natural gas and oil reserves fairly easily. They're also entirely self sufficient when it comes to power and food etc. So they don't necessarily need trade agreements with the rest of Europe, even though they do very well out of flogging off some of their excess power (generated from nice clean, safe and renewable hydroelectric power stations) to their Scandinavian friends.

With Switzerland, you're talking about a country that has always kept its nose clean and avoided internal and international conflict as much as possible. Because of this they've been able to focus on developing their economy through big business and industry. Their financial sector is in a far healthier state than ours is, and the country is MINTED. Switzerland has the highest wealth per adult of any country IN THE WORLD. They don't need to be in the EU because they don't need to share anything.

The trouble is we're not like either of these countries. We have a MASSIVE population (by comparison) and we don't have vast natural resources or any industrial backbone to fall back on. If we pulled out of the EU we're suddenly dependent upon ourselves entirely, and over the years we've gotten rid of anything tangible we can live off or trade with. We're skint, and all we can do is cosy up to the financial services sector offering them favourable terms to operate here, hoping they don't get a better offer elsewhere.

We are no longer an empire nation, we have nothing. There's a bit of oil and gas we lay claim to, but not enough to shut up shop and become isolated from the rest of the world. The sad truth is we rely on the EU for a great deal of things and I don't think we're economically rigid enough to survive by ourselves anymore.

There's a reason why, with the exception of Norway and Switzerland, every country in Europe not already in the EU wants to join as soon as possible. Even the Turks, who reside mostly in Asia, want to become part of the EU because the benefits outweigh the negatives.

Do you think the US would have become a superpower if the various states hadn't united as one country? Do you think the Russians prefer life by themselves as opposed to being the top dogs of the mighty USSR? And try asking Serbians, Macedonians and Bosnians old enough to remember whether they miss being part of a united Yugoslavia.

The sad truth is we haven't been a powerful country for many years now. Better to be among the big boys of a united Europe than to be standing by ourselves struggling to get by without help.

 

[El Presidente]

I second that. Who runs Europe at the moment, its the French and Germans. Always has and always will be. It will will not effect us in any way. Companies are suddenly not going to stop dealing with the UK because of it. It's all BS and scaremongering. Are people going to stop visiting the UK, and vice versa I doubt it.

Japanese companies will switch production from the UK though. At present they get the benefits of being in the EU in the form of free transfer or labour and goods. That will disappear if we leave the EU.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

If we pulled out of the EU we're suddenly dependent upon ourselves entirely, and over the years we've gotten rid of anything tangible we can live off or trade with. We're skint, and all we can do is cosy up to the financial services sector offering them favourable terms to operate here, hoping they don't get a better offer elsewhere.

What a complete load of scaremongering !!!!! Care to provide the evidence that we couldn't continue to export to and import from the EU ?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Japanese companies will switch production from the UK though. At present they get the benefits of being in the EU in the form of free transfer or labour and goods. That will disappear if we leave the EU.

Once again, care to provide the evidence of this ? Nissan have said that Britain being in the EU has no influence on their decision to be in Britain.

EDIT - I ask as this was EXACTLY the argument pro-EU people used to support us entering the Euro.

 

[Simster]

Once again, care to provide the evidence of this ? Nissan have said that Britain being in the EU has no influence on their decision to be in Britain.

EDIT - I ask as this was EXACTLY the argument pro-EU people used to support us entering the Euro.

How can that possibly be the case? If Nissan suddenly become liable for a EU import tax that they weren't previously liable for, how long do you think they will stay in Sunderland for?

You live in cloud cuckoo land if you think we could renegotiate out trading terms with the EU such that they are more favourable. We would need them a lot more than they'd need us.

 

[Marshal Josip Tito]

What a complete load of scaremongering !!!!! Care to provide the evidence that we couldn't continue to export to and import from the EU ?

Well what are we going to export exactly?

 

[Woodchip]

How can that possibly be the case? If Nissan suddenly become liable for a EU import tax that they weren't previously liable for, how long do you think they will stay in Sunderland for?

You live in cloud cuckoo land if you think we could renegotiate out trading terms with the EU such that they are more favourable. We would need them a lot more than they'd need us.

Some pretty big IFs in there.

We should leave the EU and set up trade agreements with them. Wasn't that the basis of the EEC? Not old enough to remember its workings but I'm sure some here remember it.

Sent by yolk folk

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Well what are we going to export exactly?

Exactly the same services and goods that we do now.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

How can that possibly be the case? If Nissan suddenly become liable for a EU import tax that they weren't previously liable for, how long do you think they will stay in Sunderland for?

You live in cloud cuckoo land if you think we could renegotiate out trading terms with the EU such that they are more favourable. We would need them a lot more than they'd need us.

What EU Import tax would that be then ? The same that Norway and Switzerland pay ?

 

[Marshal Josip Tito]

Exactly the same services and goods that we do now.

Without EU subsidies we couldn't afford to.

What we need is tangible assets. Machines and labourers who make things and miners who dig for coal, iron ore or salt etc.

We don't have any of this anymore. Such industry and infrastructure has all been closed down.

We are kept afloat by our financial services industry, which at the moment is ever so frail. Switzerland do it better than us, but we have the advantage of being an EU member state. Take that away and the financial firms will have no reason to stay, particularly as we'd need to start taxing them more to appease an angry population who are feeling the hit of leaving the EU.

I just don't think we have ANYTHING to fall back on if we were to try and go it alone. Some people are looking too far into the past and we're not that country anymore sadly.

 

[El Presidente]

What EU Import tax would that be then ? The same that Norway and Switzerland pay ?

The EU has a 10% tariff on all cars from outside the EU.

If you were Nissan, what would you do?

 

[Southern Scouse]

The thing is, the only European countries doing well outside of the EU are Norway and Switzerland. The Norwegians have a lot of land and a wealth of natural resources they don't wish to share and the Swiss pride themselves on their neutrality. However both countries have fairly extensive agreements which mean they are near enough EU members, when compared with, say, Albania.

Norway has a significantly smaller population than Britain so can share out the wealth from its natural gas and oil reserves fairly easily. They're also entirely self sufficient when it comes to power and food etc. So they don't necessarily need trade agreements with the rest of Europe, even though they do very well out of flogging off some of their excess power (generated from nice clean, safe and renewable hydroelectric power stations) to their Scandinavian friends.

With Switzerland, you're talking about a country that has always kept its nose clean and avoided internal and international conflict as much as possible. Because of this they've been able to focus on developing their economy through big business and industry. Their financial sector is in a far healthier state than ours is, and the country is MINTED. Switzerland has the highest wealth per adult of any country IN THE WORLD. They don't need to be in the EU because they don't need to share anything.

The trouble is we're not like either of these countries. We have a MASSIVE population (by comparison) and we don't have vast natural resources or any industrial backbone to fall back on. If we pulled out of the EU we're suddenly dependent upon ourselves entirely, and over the years we've gotten rid of anything tangible we can live off or trade with. We're skint, and all we can do is cosy up to the financial services sector offering them favourable terms to operate here, hoping they don't get a better offer elsewhere.

We are no longer an empire nation, we have nothing. There's a bit of oil and gas we lay claim to, but not enough to shut up shop and become isolated from the rest of the world. The sad truth is we rely on the EU for a great deal of things and I don't think we're economically rigid enough to survive by ourselves anymore.

There's a reason why, with the exception of Norway and Switzerland, every country in Europe not already in the EU wants to join as soon as possible. Even the Turks, who reside mostly in Asia, want to become part of the EU because the benefits outweigh the negatives.

Do you think the US would have become a superpower if the various states hadn't united as one country? Do you think the Russians prefer life by themselves as opposed to being the top dogs of the mighty USSR? And try asking Serbians, Macedonians and Bosnians old enough to remember whether they miss being part of a united Yugoslavia.

The sad truth is we haven't been a powerful country for many years now. Better to be among the big boys of a united Europe than to be standing by ourselves struggling to get by without help.

I have no real, fact based opinion. I made some comments earlier that have been slated, fair enough.
However, your well put argument would seem to me to make sense when most just want to jump on the "Let's get out of here" bus.
Good well thought out post.

 

[cunning fergus]

Without EU subsidies we couldn't afford to.

What we need is tangible assets. Machines and labourers who make things and miners who dig for coal, iron ore or salt etc.

We don't have any of this anymore. Such industry and infrastructure has all been closed down.

We are kept afloat by our financial services industry, which at the moment is ever so frail. Switzerland do it better than us, but we have the advantage of being an EU member state. Take that away and the financial firms will have no reason to stay, particularly as we'd need to start taxing them more to appease an angry population who are feeling the hit of leaving the EU.

I just don't think we have ANYTHING to fall back on if we were to try and go it alone. Some people are looking too far into the past and we're not that country anymore sadly.

Calm down.

The euro is still f***ed. These countries leaders may well have agreed a new framework of how they will move forward BUT they still have to deal with the same problems that were knocking about on Wednesday. Nothing agreed last night has magiced away Greece's debt or Italy's unsustainable wages. Neither Germany or the ECB has agreed to start lending and Eurobonds are no nearer.........so nothing has changed.

In addition, there is a massive assumption that the countries that have agreed this new framework will have this decision endorsed by their own electorates............there's a long way to go on that score yet, particularly when fiscal transfers start. Let's be honest many of the 27 want security and Germany provides that.......hardly surprising.

The final point is that the idiots that joined the euro and failed to implement appropriate controls are the same idiots representing that they can be trusted...............fact is they cant.

Have a good weekend.