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[News] Middle East conflict



Wardy's twin

Well-known member
Oct 21, 2014
8,753
Israel has been bombing sites in Syria for many years , hitting arms dumps intended for Hezbollah and indeed Hezbollah fighters . Some of those attacks were also in support for Sunni Arabs who were fighting the Asad government and who would be classed in the West as terrorists.
 




Bakero

Languidly clinical
Oct 9, 2010
14,749
Almería
I'd like to believe that Palestinian and Lebonesse civilians have only died where Hamas & Hesbolah have used them as a human shield.

If the terrorists live and operate amongst innocent civilians, I don't know how else the Israelis could retaliate?

It's an ugly situation but I can't help feeling that if Hesbolah and Hamas left Israel alone the Israelis would stop hitting them. Its almost like the Israelis are being provoked into retaliation because Hamas, Hesbolah and Iran all know that Israel will be seen as being bad.

I do fear that Israel escalating is risky, poking a hornet's nest is never wise.

I don't mean to be rude but this is a rather simplistic view of the situation. I don't have the time or inclination to explain the background or the current state of affairs but you might want to do some reading.
 


Bakero

Languidly clinical
Oct 9, 2010
14,749
Almería
Iran has already been on the ground in the Ukraine theatre.....mostly in Crimea operating drones against Ukraine targets.... as have many Asian, African and even South American odds and sods from suspect regimes.... nothing new there.

Do you have a link to info regarding this?
 




nevergoagain

Well-known member
Jul 28, 2005
1,446
nowhere near Burgess Hill
Can someone answer the below Q's please, honest questions as I don't know the answers on this one Re. Lebanon.
  • Who are Hezbollah, are they mainly Lebanese or a gathering of multi-national fanatics a la ISIS ?
  • Why/How did the Official Lebanese government let them become so powerful on their territory
  • Why does Iran support/arm them?, is it purely because they occupy a land border with Israel ?
  • Are Hezbollah the reason why Christian population has decreased from 50% to 30%
  • WTF are 10k British people doing there ?
 




Zeberdi

“Vorsprung durch Technik”
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
6,213
Israel has been bombing sites in Syria for many years , hitting arms dumps intended for Hezbollah and indeed Hezbollah fighters . Some of those attacks were also in support for Sunni Arabs who were fighting the Asad government and who would be classed in the West as terrorists.
Yes, they have. For decades. The ME has never been entirely at peace in my lifetime if ever.

But I see this in the wider context of what is happening (and @Bozza is free to merge this with the Yemen and Lebanon threads if he wants) - Israel has not before attacked Syria whilst engaging in a potentially genocidal conflict with Hamas in Gaza, while in active missile engagement with the Houthis in Yemen, and while conducting a ground invasion in Lebanon with the potential for equally devastating civilian casualties . All of which is daily ramping up the risk of escalatory responses from Iran backed interests in the ME.

The recent attack on the Iranian Consulate in Damascus, triggered a direct (albeit deliberately limited) response from Iran. The war in Ukraine and Russia’s threats to go nuclear, along with Russia’s presence in Syria make this an incredibly dangerous point in modern Middle Eastern conflict which could go pear-shaped very quickly.

Israel seems to be embarking on an endgame to wipe out the axis of resistance against the advice of the international community and against the express wishes of every major power and seems to be doing it as a matter of urgency to save Netanyahu’s political future - with no exit strategy because unless the impossible is achieved and Hezbollah, Hamas and the Houthis were completely wiped out from Lebanon, Syria, Palestine, Yemen, Iraq and Turkey and Qatar etc - this war of attrition against terrorism could go on for decades creating unimaginable humanitarian catastrophes - or it just blow up in the shorter term in a regional conflagration with horrific consequences and global military involvement.

Neither is at all desireable.

 




ditchy

a man with a sound track record as a source of qua
Jul 8, 2003
5,241
brighton
Yes, they have. For decades. The ME has never been entirely at peace in my lifetime if ever.

But I see this in the wider context of what is happening (and @Bozza is free to merge this with the Yemen and Lebanon threads if he wants) - Israel has not before attacked Syria whilst engaging in a potentially genocidal conflict with Hamas in Gaza, while in active missile engagement with the Houthis in Yemen, and while conducting a ground invasion in Lebanon with the potential for equally devastating civilian casualties . All of which is daily ramping up the risk of escalatory responses from Iran backed interests in the ME.

The recent attack on the Iranian Consulate in Damascus, triggered a direct (albeit deliberately limited) response from Iran. The war in Ukraine and Russia’s threats to go nuclear, along with Russia’s presence in Syria make this an incredibly dangerous point in modern Middle Eastern conflict which could go pear-shaped very quickly.

Israel seems to be embarking on an endgame to wipe out the axis of resistance against the advice of the international community and against the express wishes of every major power and seems to be doing it as a matter of urgency to save Netanyahu’s political future - with no exit strategy because unless the impossible is achieved and Hezbollah, Hamas and the Houthis were completely wiped out from Lebanon, Syria, Palestine, Yemen, Iraq and Turkey and Qatar etc - this war of attrition against terrorism could go on for decades creating unimaginable humanitarian catastrophes - or it just blow up in the shorter term in a regional conflagration with horrific consequences and global military involvement.

Neither is at all desireable.

Did Israel , not fight Egypt , Jordan , Syria and Lebanon all at once in the 1967 6 day war and won ? . At present they must feel immensely confident .
 






carlzeiss

Well-known member
May 19, 2009
6,162
Amazonia
Did Israel , not fight Egypt , Jordan , Syria and Lebanon all at once in the 1967 6 day war and won ? . At present they must feel immensely confident .
Lebanon largely stayed out of that one but ended up with thousands of Palestinian refugees and the resulting violence causing many of Lebanon's Jewish community to flee the country
 


rippleman

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2011
4,899
You don't think that providing arms to an organisation that wishes death to all Jews could be construed as genocidal?

We really ought to get away from this idea that Israel wants to wipe out Palestinians. They are taking care not to kill more civilians than they could help. If they want to kill all 2 million Palestinians in Gaza and have only killed an estimated 20,000 so far, they've either got a hopelessly incompetent military or else they are not genocidal.

How many wars (excluding the Falklands) have the UK fought without killing civilians?
My bold

So nearly 17K children slaughtered in Gaza since 7/10/23 is "taking care"? Hmmmm. Ok, if you say so.
 




Birdie Boy

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2011
4,281
A friend went to Lebanon for a holiday June ish last year. I was determined to go as it looks absolutely beautiful. About an hour or so outside Beirut and aptly named Bliss. Work got in the way. Shame, definitely not going now!
 




SeagullinExile

Well-known member
Sep 10, 2010
6,117
London
Iran preparing a missile strike on Israel according to the US. One step closer to blockading the Straights of Hormuz. I believe we are on the brink of war folks.
 




Wardy's twin

Well-known member
Oct 21, 2014
8,753
Lebanon largely stayed out of that one but ended up with thousands of Palestinian refugees and the resulting violence causing many of Lebanon's Jewish community to flee the country
there had been thriving Jewish communities through out the Arab world but they disappeared , moved to Israel and in part of the reason why Israel is more rightwing/less tolerant than it had been.
 






Bakero

Languidly clinical
Oct 9, 2010
14,749
Almería
Can someone answer the below Q's please, honest questions as I don't know the answers on this one Re. Lebanon.
  • Who are Hezbollah, are they mainly Lebanese or a gathering of multi-national fanatics a la ISIS ?
  • Why/How did the Official Lebanese government let them become so powerful on their territory
  • Why does Iran support/arm them?, is it purely because they occupy a land border with Israel ?
  • Are Hezbollah the reason why Christian population has decreased from 50% to 30%
  • WTF are 10k British people doing there ?

No expert but here's what I know:

Hezbollah is both a political and military organisation which was formed during the Lebanese civil war. Formed from various Shiite groups, they were aligned with Iran since day one. Within Lebanon they have decent support from the Shia Muslim population but are viewed negatively by many. That said, they're a major player in the Lebanese political scene. In terms of militants, I believe they're mostly Lebanese but there may well be foreign militants.

Like I said, they've been backed by Iran since their Inception. Both Hezbollah and Iran share strategic goals as well as religion (both represent Shia Muslims).

The Lebanese diaspora greatly outnumbers the internal population and most of them are Christian. Interreligious tension predates Hezbollah though and was a factor in the civil war.

As for the British, no idea. Lots of people of Lebanese descent in the UK though, many of whom are Christian. Not a surprise that some had returned to live or visit.
 




Feb 23, 2009
24,034
Brighton factually.....
Israel is basically another state of the US. Imagine an Iranian attack on US soil, it would have the same consequence as an attack on Israel.
agreed...

Israel is leading the west into confrontation with most of the middle east, as Iran threatens to send missiles in retaliation to Israel's own Jihad against whoever it feels threatens them. The powers that be in the west have sat idly by and issued "stern" warnings all the while still supplying them with weapons and technology.

This could escalate out of control very quickly, will our soldiers be soon on the ground in Iran, just like Iraq, America threating a response now, we are their lapdogs are we not.

Israel is out of control, due to weak governments who have not checked them or been stern enough in the past.
Money talks they seem frightened to lose business in the arms industry, votes in America etc.

The West has given Israel the green light to do what it wants, the progressive continual land grabbing in Palestine and Gaza has been going on years with Jewish settlers ousting locals, I would not sit back and watch that happen without feeling I need to fight back, why are we supposed to be surprised or let it happen, they do as they wish, I may be touching a nerve here, but it seems the west has given Israel a green light because of the past and feel guilty, two wrongs do not make a right.
 


SeagullinExile

Well-known member
Sep 10, 2010
6,117
London
No expert but here's what I know:

Hezbollah is both a political and military organisation which was formed during the Lebanese civil war. Formed from various Shiite groups, they were aligned with Iran since day one. Within Lebanon they have decent support from the Shia Muslim population but are viewed negatively by many. That said, they're a major player in the Lebanese political scene. In terms of militants, I believe they're mostly Lebanese but there may well be foreign militants.

Like I said, they've been backed by Iran since their Inception. Both Hezbollah and Iran share strategic goals as well as religion (both represent Shia Muslims).

The Lebanese diaspora greatly outnumbers the internal population and most of them are Christian. Interreligious tension predates Hezbollah though and was a factor in the civil war.

As for the British, no idea. Lots of people of Lebanese descent in the UK though, many of whom are Christian. Not a surprise that some had returned to live or visit.
There’s 90,000 Lebanese/UK duel nationals here apparently.
 


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