kicked off in LODZ

[xenophon]

are you proud of English thugs of the 80's? oh dear.

as for the east europeans lads, as someone in the paper said this week, their parents rioted in the face soviet machine guns. thats what they they were doing 30 years ago, fighting communism.

I can't remeber saying I was proud of English thugs in the 80s, just saying how it was. But your straw man of my opinion probably took you all morning to build, so here's big shout out to your ego, WOOOOOOOT!

Of course EVERYONE was fighting communism in Ukraine and Poland back then, none of those communist machine guns were manned by Poles or Ukrainians themselves.

FACT: England, right or wrong, ran riot all over Europe back then

FACT: The Ukrainians and Poles were NOWHERE then, and still haven't brought it since they were allowed to travel after the fall of communism. The Poles tried it in Belfast and got handed their arses back to them a couple of years ago too.

 

[Pantani]

apparently the irish and english smashed the poles twice then turned on each ova.

It is wrong to hit to hit women!

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Funny that as my best mate is a headmaster and his misses is a maths teacher.Last week we all went out for a meal and she started crying which was weird,these comments really upset her as she like most teachers works her socks off doing stupid hours a week,even holidays are turning into more work.My view is that you have to ignore these pathetic comments as these idiots haven't a clue about the stresses of teaching.

She's really taken it personal and she needs to somehow ignore these hideous views and move on.

My wife has been in tears a few times due to the stress of it all. These are the parts people never see.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

I can't remeber saying I was proud of English thugs in the 80s, just saying how it was. But your straw man of my opinion probably took you all morning to build, so here's big shout out to your ego, WOOOOOOOT!

Of course EVERYONE was fighting communism in Ukraine and Poland back then, none of those communist machine guns were manned by Poles or Ukrainians themselves.


FACT: England, right or wrong, ran riot all over Europe back then

FACT: The Ukrainians and Poles were NOWHERE then, and still haven't brought it since they were allowed to travel after the fall of communism. The Poles tried it in Belfast and got handed their arses back to them a couple of years ago too.

Belgium turned up last saturday

 

[life on mars 73]

I retrained as a teacher a few years ago, but quit the profession just recently - by far the most difficult job i have ever done. Had I been a bit younger, had a bit more energy, I might just have hacked it for longer, but every day was totally draining.

 

[chimneys]

Oh ok, so when England rocked up in the former Soviet countries the local fans were under travel restrictions not to travel to their local stadiums? Thanks for the exclusive insight.

30 years ago their press was strictly controlled by the Communists, and the internet (where most of the wannabes these days get their info from) was not invented. Therefore where do you reckon the East European lads (who couldnt travel) got their education about West European hooliganism in 1982 from? When we travelled it was the organised, well informed taking on the unsuspecting.

Presume you were in Katowice in 93 or 97 to be able to speak from such a position of authority? Thought not! Nor was I but had mates who were and was told liberties were not taken by England but that a number of our lads were lucky to get through the forest back to town alive!

The bravery of the East European nations on the Eastern front during WW2 says more than enough for most of us to show how "hard" they were/are!

 

[SweBHAFC]

From yesterday

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=C7D0fNtIdW0

 

[cunning fergus]

are you proud of English thugs of the 80's? oh dear.

as for the east europeans lads, as someone in the paper said this week, their parents rioted in the face of soviet machine guns. thats what they they were doing 30 years ago, fighting communism.

Sounds good but whilst some did but many many didn't as they were either part of, or compliant with the communist state machine. Some people in the media want to re-write the history books so we can all feel cosy with our new European identity but it doesnt wash.

Not all the poles (or eastern europeans) were members of solidarity, just like they didnt all fight against the Germans in the war. Yes, we know the free poles fought bravely with the Allies, but many thousands of other poles fought with the Germans as did Romanians, Dutch, Italians, French, Belgain, Spanish, Czechs, Croats, Hungarians, Finns, Estonians, Lithuanians etc. They were as involved in the death camps and/or committing atrocities as the Germans.

The Ukranians were fully on the Axis side as a consequence of Stalin's collectivisation policies (creating a famine killing approx. 10m in 10 years). Little wonder some Ukranians still remember the Nazis fondly as oppose the equally evil communist fascism they lived with pre war and for the last 50 years.

So let's have some balance on the eastern european love-in.........whilst we have an unprecedented wave of hard working poles, we've also got rising levels on British unskilled workers not willing to work for the depressed wages similar or less than they will get on benefits.

Also on the negative side we have our Eastern Europeans friends involved in record numbers of drink driving related offences, fraud (especially ID theft and counterfeiting) and scams carried out with the benefit system.

 

[Triggaaar]

Well this is nice

 

[Working class pride]

I understand where you are coming from but was refering to working class pride's strange and extremely unfair attack on teachers. I am not sure why we are being called lazy and greedy and lumped in with dole scrounging chavs. We obviously don't fit into the ever narrowing band of the working class that he feels pride in.[/QUOTE]

Mate, its not an "attack" on teachers and that mentality of "oh I have it so hard" really does grate. You don't and top believing your own self interested and frankly disgraceful "trade unions" (in inverted commas as they have nothing to do with the matchsticks girls or the toll puddle martyrs).

The absurd argument of someone cried at a dinner party and she is a teacher could only come from someone brainwashed by the NUT. Understand that other jobs don't keep records of people stressed and most people hide it as they need to earn a living. There are people on this site who work in the building trades and they can explain their terms & conditions and the credit the Eastern Europeans are. But I know and know of Eastern European people who have moved to England, speak English as a second language and have set up letting agencies, law firms, taxi companies and coffee shops. They all earn less than a teacher and let me introduce you to their world and their stress:-

1. What they kill they eat (ie they have to win their own customers to earn) - there is no government safe cheque at the end of every month to pay for a flat/ house/ room, food, clothes, or dinner invitations.
2. If they do not work, they do not earn. They have no paid holiday at all, never mind taking at least one week off every five weeks.
3. They have no pension and no retirement on two thirds government backed safe pensionable salary when they reach 60odd.
4. If they have stress or they are ill, they do not earn and there is no retirement on ill health and nobody writes them down and records them as a statistic.

Can i also say that I see these things from a non biased perspective having been brought up by people that worked in both the private and public sectors. You also will hate this but change is good and it is your customers not you the teacher that is important. Your product simply is not good enough and the fact that you don't understand that explains the need to privatise schools so the successful thrive and the useless get sacked. (Obviously the fees are paid by the state so the schooling is free to all).

Perhaps your teacher would like to meet a few Eastern European people and she can go to dinner with them over the summer. They however will have limited availability because they will be working. Also as your teacher earns more than them, then she can offer to pay, but she can do so in the safe knowledge that they will refuse to let her because they have working class pride.

 

[GingerBeerMan]

From yesterday

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=C7D0fNtIdW0

Who's that. Russia on the left against ... ?

 

[SweBHAFC]

Don't know mate. I thought it was Poles v stewards.

The little Thai boxer kicking the steward twice in the head towards the end.... Not much power in those kicks but agile little twat I give him.

 

[BadFish]

I understand where you are coming from but was refering to working class pride's strange and extremely unfair attack on teachers. I am not sure why we are being called lazy and greedy and lumped in with dole scrounging chavs. We obviously don't fit into the ever narrowing band of the working class that he feels pride in.

Mate, its not an "attack" on teachers and that mentality of "oh I have it so hard" really does grate. You don't and top believing your own self interested and frankly disgraceful "trade unions" (in inverted commas as they have nothing to do with the matchsticks girls or the toll puddle martyrs).

The absurd argument of someone cried at a dinner party and she is a teacher could only come from someone brainwashed by the NUT. Understand that other jobs don't keep records of people stressed and most people hide it as they need to earn a living. There are people on this site who work in the building trades and they can explain their terms & conditions and the credit the Eastern Europeans are. But I know and know of Eastern European people who have moved to England, speak English as a second language and have set up letting agencies, law firms, taxi companies and coffee shops. They all earn less than a teacher and let me introduce you to their world and their stress:-

1. What they kill they eat (ie they have to win their own customers to earn) - there is no government safe cheque at the end of every month to pay for a flat/ house/ room, food, clothes, or dinner invitations.
2. If they do not work, they do not earn. They have no paid holiday at all, never mind taking at least one week off every five weeks.
3. They have no pension and no retirement on two thirds government backed safe pensionable salary when they reach 60odd.
4. If they have stress or they are ill, they do not earn and there is no retirement on ill health and nobody writes them down and records them as a statistic.

Can i also say that I see these things from a non biased perspective having been brought up by people that worked in both the private and public sectors. You also will hate this but change is good and it is your customers not you the teacher that is important. Your product simply is not good enough and the fact that you don't understand that explains the need to privatise schools so the successful thrive and the useless get sacked. (Obviously the fees are paid by the state so the schooling is free to all).

Perhaps your teacher would like to meet a few Eastern European people and she can go to dinner with them over the summer. They however will have limited availability because they will be working. Also as your teacher earns more than them, then she can offer to pay, but she can do so in the safe knowledge that they will refuse to let her because they have working class pride.[/QUOTE]

What a load of shite! Are you saying that because there are people worse off than me i shouldn't defend my profession against small minded ignorant attacks from the likes of you?

 

[beorhthelm]

I can't remeber saying I was proud of English thugs in the 80s, just saying how it was. But your straw man of my opinion probably took you all morning to build, so here's big shout out to your ego, WOOOOOOOT!

not sure how a question can be a straw man. nevermind, lets get your position absolutly clear: do you condon acts of violence in the name of football support or not?

 

[BadFish]

Mate, its not an "attack" on teachers and that mentality of "oh I have it so hard" really does grate. You don't and top believing your own self interested and frankly disgraceful "trade unions" (in inverted commas as they have nothing to do with the matchsticks girls or the toll puddle martyrs).

The absurd argument of someone cried at a dinner party and she is a teacher could only come from someone brainwashed by the NUT. Understand that other jobs don't keep records of people stressed and most people hide it as they need to earn a living. There are people on this site who work in the building trades and they can explain their terms & conditions and the credit the Eastern Europeans are. But I know and know of Eastern European people who have moved to England, speak English as a second language and have set up letting agencies, law firms, taxi companies and coffee shops. They all earn less than a teacher and let me introduce you to their world and their stress:-

1. What they kill they eat (ie they have to win their own customers to earn) - there is no government safe cheque at the end of every month to pay for a flat/ house/ room, food, clothes, or dinner invitations.
2. If they do not work, they do not earn. They have no paid holiday at all, never mind taking at least one week off every five weeks.
3. They have no pension and no retirement on two thirds government backed safe pensionable salary when they reach 60odd.
4. If they have stress or they are ill, they do not earn and there is no retirement on ill health and nobody writes them down and records them as a statistic.

Can i also say that I see these things from a non biased perspective having been brought up by people that worked in both the private and public sectors. You also will hate this but change is good and it is your customers not you the teacher that is important. Your product simply is not good enough and the fact that you don't understand that explains the need to privatise schools so the successful thrive and the useless get sacked. (Obviously the fees are paid by the state so the schooling is free to all).

Perhaps your teacher would like to meet a few Eastern European people and she can go to dinner with them over the summer. They however will have limited availability because they will be working. Also as your teacher earns more than them, then she can offer to pay, but she can do so in the safe knowledge that they will refuse to let her because they have working class pride.

What a load of shite! Are you saying that because there are people worse off than me i shouldn't defend my profession against small minded ignorant attacks from the likes of you?[/QUOTE]

As for 'oh i have it so hard' i don't I do the job I love but I work f***ing hard doing it (just put my laptop away at nine o clock on a saturday night, how's that for half a year off?) And i make a difference to peoples lives. I just think teachers deserve a little more respect than you showed in your post.

Privatise the education system?? You are a disgrace to your own username.

 

[cunning fergus]

30 years ago their press was strictly controlled by the Communists, and the internet (where most of the wannabes these days get their info from) was not invented. Therefore where do you reckon the East European lads (who couldnt travel) got their education about West European hooliganism in 1982 from? When we travelled it was the organised, well informed taking on the unsuspecting.

Presume you were in Katowice in 93 or 97 to be able to speak from such a position of authority? Thought not! Nor was I but had mates who were and was told liberties were not taken by England but that a number of our lads were lucky to get through the forest back to town alive!

The bravery of the East European nations on the Eastern front during WW2 says more than enough for most of us to show how "hard" they were/are!

I was there in 97.

Krakow was madness before the day of the match, I think we were attacked within an hour off getting off the train. It set the scene for the day, although it had been the same the day before in Warsaw.

The Pope was in town too so, you had the mental backdrop of nuns pilgrims etc. milling around the town whilst hundreds of English and Polish were brawling in the streets. I dont think the Police charged anyone, some fans were locked up for the night but paid a "fine" to get released.

The day of the game the Police stormed the Hotel in Chrozy where everyone was drinking peacefully to force the England fans out so we had to walk a mile or so through a park (forest) to the game with no escort. Poles were everywhere and definitely ready to fight. The Police made it clear they were not interested in what went on in the park.

Of the group we I was with we had some challenging moments, but we all looked out for each other. Two of the lads we came across had been stabbed by Poles BUT we got together with them and we ALL got to the game.

Much of the same after the game, but then that was the way it was in Eastern Europe...............actually all of Europe in the 90s with England.

Italy probably the worst.

 

[xenophon]

not sure how a question can be a straw man. nevermind, lets get your position absolutly clear: do you condon acts of violence in the name of football support or not?

I'm neither for or against it, but where some people see black and white on many issues, the facts are always various shades of grey, and 'football violence' seems to animate the righteous and appalled more than anything else. So, I'll make two quick points on it.

Lots of the so called rampaging by English 'animals' over the years was self defence, lots of it wasn't. But, if I was in a bar and some seig heiling bonehead started windmilling in at me unprovoked I would kick his f***ing head in.

Second point, 95% of football violence is mere pavement dancing and mass choreography, with lads ebbing and flowing - one minute windmilling in, the next on their toes. On the scale of shocking and appalling human violence, it isn't that high on the Richter Scale, that's why football fighting deaths are pretty rare, and Heysel is such a shocking flow of images even now. Compared to events in Syria for example, it's handbags.

 

[BadFish]

I'm neither for or against it, but where some people see black and white on many issues, and 'football violence' seems to animate the righteous and appalled more than anything else, I'll make two quick points on it.

Lots of the so called rampaging by English 'animals' over the years was self defence, lots of it wasn't. But, if I was in a bar and some seig heiling bonehead started windmilling in at me unprovoked I would kick his f***ing head in.

Second point, 95% of football violence is mere pavement dancing and mass choreography, with lads ebbing and flowing - one minute windmilling in, the next on their toes. On the scale of shocking and appalling violence, it isn't that high on the Richter Scale, that's why football fighting deaths are pretty rare, and Heysel is such a shocking flow of images even now. Compared to events in Syria for example, it's handbags.

People are going to fight if they want to. The city centre of Melbourne or Geelong or any city aroung the word bares evidence to that. Why not let them? Give them a car park, forest or piece of waste ground and let them go at it, get their kicks and then get back to their normal lives.

At least if they get their buzz like this it stops innocent people getting caught up with it.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

I understand where you are coming from but was refering to working class pride's strange and extremely unfair attack on teachers. I am not sure why we are being called lazy and greedy and lumped in with dole scrounging chavs. We obviously don't fit into the ever narrowing band of the working class that he feels pride in.

Mate, its not an "attack" on teachers and that mentality of "oh I have it so hard" really does grate. You don't and top believing your own self interested and frankly disgraceful "trade unions" (in inverted commas as they have nothing to do with the matchsticks girls or the toll puddle martyrs).

The absurd argument of someone cried at a dinner party and she is a teacher could only come from someone brainwashed by the NUT. Understand that other jobs don't keep records of people stressed and most people hide it as they need to earn a living. There are people on this site who work in the building trades and they can explain their terms & conditions and the credit the Eastern Europeans are. But I know and know of Eastern European people who have moved to England, speak English as a second language and have set up letting agencies, law firms, taxi companies and coffee shops. They all earn less than a teacher and let me introduce you to their world and their stress:-

1. What they kill they eat (ie they have to win their own customers to earn) - there is no government safe cheque at the end of every month to pay for a flat/ house/ room, food, clothes, or dinner invitations.
2. If they do not work, they do not earn. They have no paid holiday at all, never mind taking at least one week off every five weeks.
3. They have no pension and no retirement on two thirds government backed safe pensionable salary when they reach 60odd.
4. If they have stress or they are ill, they do not earn and there is no retirement on ill health and nobody writes them down and records them as a statistic.

Can i also say that I see these things from a non biased perspective having been brought up by people that worked in both the private and public sectors. You also will hate this but change is good and it is your customers not you the teacher that is important. Your product simply is not good enough and the fact that you don't understand that explains the need to privatise schools so the successful thrive and the useless get sacked. (Obviously the fees are paid by the state so the schooling is free to all).

Perhaps your teacher would like to meet a few Eastern European people and she can go to dinner with them over the summer. They however will have limited availability because they will be working. Also as your teacher earns more than them, then she can offer to pay, but she can do so in the safe knowledge that they will refuse to let her because they have working class pride.[/QUOTE]

What is all this working class bullshite? Do you think all teachers grew up with a silver spoon in their mouth?

 

[Commander]

What a load of shite! Are you saying that because there are people worse off than me i shouldn't defend my profession against small minded ignorant attacks from the likes of you?

As for 'oh i have it so hard' i don't I do the job I love but I work f***ing hard doing it (just put my laptop away at nine o clock on a saturday night, how's that for half a year off?) And i make a difference to peoples lives. I just think teachers deserve a little more respect than you showed in your post.

Privatise the education system?? You are a disgrace to your own username.[/QUOTE]

I don't think anyone really thinks that teachers work 8.30 - 3.30 and get 12 weeks holiday a year. They do work hard. But what teachers always seem to forget, is that so do most other professionals, and they get 20 days holiday a year. I have a stressful job where if I don't perform I'll get let go, very very quickly. Teachers don't have that hanging over their heads. And I don't get 12 weeks holiday a year for it. I wouldn't care how stressful my job was if I got that kind of holiday!

I think that in the grand scheme of things teachers have it fairly good.

Quite how a thread about fighting in Poland has turned into a debate about Teachers, I have no idea.