here is a view words from harty.

[Deleted User X18H]

Will you ever post something of interest instead of bullshit or look at me threads?

Some of the things I have been told recently would make your teeth itch, but I would never betray a confidence and post them on here!!!

 

[Buzzer]

I've already answered this, earlier in the thread. But I'll elaborate.

I was expressing my satisfaction that Adams was returning to replace Wilkins as manager. By the time 8 May had come round, I'd heard enough stories about Wilkins' management style (from people other than DK) to reach the conclusion that he should go. The spat with DK over the Hammond contract negotiations was but a small piece of the saga - and in itself had been resolved when Hammond had left for Colchester. During the second half of last season, it seemed to me to be the case that DK and DW had found a way of getting over the issue, but I was still hearing stories (from other people) that led me to believe that DW wasn't managing well. On 8 May, I was therefore pleased to hear that he was losing the role of manager (which I didn't think he was good at) and being offered a coaching role (where his skills would be best used).

The reason I was "not surprised" had nothing to do with me having inside information that Adams was returning. I hadn't been given any hint that this was even likely - despite conversations over the months with several individuals who might have said something (had it been planned for some time), but didn't. My lack of surprise was merely a lack of surprise about Wilkins' removal from the manager's job. If he'd been replaced by Danny Wilson, Steve Coppell or anyone else, I would have said the same thing - "I'm not surprised".

Did you honestly think DW would have accepted the humiliation of taking the coaching role after being sacked as manager? How would it have worked with Mayo and Hart being re-instated? If you honestly believe that Wilkins would have taken the coaching role then you are very, very naive.

Well, a manager who you think was not good at managing got us 7th with attractive football and a squad chocka full of local lads. The fact that he did this when he was up against the chairman and according to you, a fair few players in the dressing room means in my eyes that he must have been a blindingly good manager.

Now this is out in the open, LB, I have to say that you have certainly hinted that Wilkins wasn't up to the job (you've actually explicitly stated it here), that his achievements were not really all that much and using Harty's favourite phrase "we were papering over the cracks".

And I'm still not convinced by your explanations of "I was surprised/I wasn't surprised". I think you've been used as part of this whispering campaign by DK against DW and you're not even aware of it.

J'accuse, Lord B.

 

[Arthur]

Let's put it this way ...

If Adams left, I wouldn't be surprised. And, if he stays, I wouldn't be surprised either.

Unlike others, I don't see that the major problem is Adams. We are letting goals in because something is wrong with the defence. When they are pushed back to within 10 yards of the goal, they don't know how to play effectively. They are static and outwitted by opposing forwards. This is a coaching issue, not a tactics issue. If the coaching staff can't get better out of our defenders, there need to be some changes made.

Up front, we haven't been creating enough chances and those we have created haven't being converted into goals. That issue seems to have been addressed by the recent signings. I've been prepared to wait a couple of games, but I've seen enough already to be confident that we will see more goals scored over the rest of the season.

So when has Dick said he's going to sack Adams?

 

[Arthur]

However, there are still two questions that have never been answered.

1) Why was he sacked.
2) Why was he allowed to release players (who came back anyway) pre-season if the writing was on the wall.

Spot on! Although I can't see us ever getting an answer about point one (unless one of the club bummers has a fall out with Dick and decides to spill the beans). But the second point is a very valid question. Unfortunately I think the answer to point two relates very much to point one so sadly we will be kept in the dark.

 

[dougdeep]

Some of the things I have been told recently would make your teeth itch, but I would never betray a confidence and post them on here!!!

Thanks Deb.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Did you honestly think DW would have accepted the humiliation of taking the coaching role after being sacked as manager?

To be honest ... no.

How would it have worked with Mayo and Hart being re-instated?

I would guess ... much the same as it has worked out. Both of them not very fit and getting their football by playing on loan at Lewes.

If you honestly believe that Wilkins would have taken the coaching role then you are very, very naive.

As I've said, I would have been surprised if he'd taken the job.

Well, a manager who you think was not good at managing got us 7th with attractive football and a squad chocka full of local lads. The fact that he did this when he was up against the chairman and according to you, a fair few players in the dressing room means in my eyes that he must have been a blindingly good manager.

Seventh was still 8 points short of actually reaching the playoffs. And the squad was no way good enough to deliver us survival in the Championship. If the football was as attractive as you say, why did crowds for home league games drop to less than 5,000 throughout February 2008? [Much lower than this season, btw]

Now this is out in the open, LB, I have to say that you have certainly hinted that Wilkins wasn't up to the job (you've actually explicitly stated it here), that his achievements were not really all that much and using Harty's favourite phrase "we were papering over the cracks".

I agree with that.

And I'm still not convinced by your explanations of "I was surprised/I wasn't surprised". I think you've been used as part of this whispering campaign by DK against DW and you're not even aware of it.

If that had been the case, I'm sure that DK would have used other opportunities that came along last season. He didn't. Besides which, I kept a public silence about what DK had said in January - only saying anything after Harty misrepresented on SCR what I had told him privately.

J'accuse, Lord B.

Non coupable.

 

[Acker79]

Seventh was still 8 points short of actually reaching the playoffs. And the squad was no way good enough to deliver us survival in the Championship. If the football was as attractive as you say, why did crowds for home league games drop to less than 5,000 throughout February 2008? [Much lower than this season, btw]

Seventh was also 21 points about the relegation zone, 6 points from mid table. It was also the position from which we were told Micky would take us forward.


Attendance:
This season, so far (with more and more people losing faith*).

Statistics - Football365 News

Ave 5984


The whole of last season:

English League One - Attendance - 2007/2008 - ESPN Soccernet

Ave 5936

I don't believe an increase of 48 is statistically significant, and is most certainly not "much lower" as you make it out to be.

Yes attendance was low last year, it is low this year, but both years are 12/13th in the table for attendance for League 1. And that is despite one of, if not the, highest priced tickets in our division for a poor quality, roofless, stadium made up of temporary seats, on the back of the relegation from the Champions League and a poor following season before signs of a resurgence.

Dean wilkins was not at fault for the low attendances last year, the price, the stadium, the run of disappointing seasons were to blame. I would equally not blame Micky for this season's attendance. Yes the football and results are poor this season, but a better stadium and cheaper tickets and we'd have more people coming to watch us play poorly and lose.



*Last 4 saturday home games (league):

v Huddersfield 6,461
v Leeds 7,096 (season high, freak number)
v Hartlepool 5,784
v Carlisle 5,529

Attendance is falling, Our average will go down if this continues.


EDIT: Just noticed the 'through february' bit. You've cherry picked the worst run of last season (how very Andy Naylor of you), which was on the back of our squad being ripped apart, a poor run of results, and the new signings still trying to settle in.

 

[pork pie]

The rumour was that Wilkins backed O Callaghan and Savage against the club and if a manager in any job does that he isnt going to be popular with the owner/boss and his job will be shortlived.

That is a very simplistic view. They were HIS staff, and a manager has to be allowed to manage within guidelines given to him. Maybe he was trying to keep two players he felt were required by him to make the playoffs?

 

[Lord Bracknell]

EDIT: Just noticed the 'through february' bit. You've cherry picked the worst run of last season (how very Andy Naylor of you), which was on the back of our squad being ripped apart, a poor run of results, and the new signings still trying to settle in.

It's not 'cherry picking'. I'm comparing like with like.

And reflecting the binfests that were prevalent on NSC a year ago that weren't very different from what we are seeing now:-

Tonights Attendance..... - North Stand Chat

 

[Acker79]

It's not 'cherry picking'. I'm comparing like with like.

And reflecting the binfests that were prevalent on NSC a year ago that weren't very different from what we are seeing now:-

Tonights Attendance..... - North Stand Chat

OK, let's compare like with like

Feb 15th 2008: 4 points (for the month), 16th in the table, 8pts clear of relegation

Feb 15th 2009: 0 points (for the month), 21st in the table, 2 points from safety

 

[Questions]

Let's put it this way ...

If Adams left, I wouldn't be surprised. And, if he stays, I wouldn't be surprised either.

Unlike others, I don't see that the major problem is Adams. We are letting goals in because something is wrong with the defence. When they are pushed back to within 10 yards of the goal, they don't know how to play effectively. They are static and outwitted by opposing forwards. This is a coaching issue, not a tactics issue. If the coaching staff can't get better out of our defenders, there need to be some changes made.

Up front, we haven't been creating enough chances and those we have created haven't being converted into goals. That issue seems to have been addressed by the recent signings. I've been prepared to wait a couple of games, but I've seen enough already to be confident that we will see more goals scored over the rest of the season.

So lets recap here.............................
We cannot defend, we create very few chances and when we do create we fluff them.
Nothing to worry about there really.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

I'm not arguing about the results, just questioning the argument that we were playing such attractive football last season as to be packing in the crowds.

Attendances obviously did get better as we climbed up the table in the last few weeks of the season.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

So lets recap here.............................
We cannot defend, we create very few chances and when we do create we fluff them.
Nothing to worry about there really.

EVERYTHING to be worried about.

Action has been taken that shows signs of dealing with the problems up front. No action seems to have been taken to deal with the deficiencies in defence, when we are faced with the opposition getting within ten yards of the goal.

 

[BensGrandad]

My interpretation of this whole charade was that Harty was trying to get the point across that it appears that many people were aware that DK wanted to sack DW so why didnt he do it in January and allow MA, who was out of work having left Colchester, to start then and he would have formulated his squad during the latter part of last season thus leaving him ready to attack this division this. Could it be that it was a question of the finance needed, not being in place ready for this season?

As Harty said I have never known such negativity within the supporters of this club during my time of watching them. The dislike of Adams is bordering on hate from some on here. Yes he has made mistakes and hopefully he will rectify those mistakes in the very near future with his new signings. My major concern is that he/ the back up team seem to be getting the team formation wrong and once that is sorted out I believe that we have the players to climb the division but it needs sorting out very soon before it is too late.

 

[Beach Hut]

My interpretation of this whole charade was that Harty was trying to get the point across that it appears that many people were aware that DK wanted to sack DW so why didnt he do it in January and allow MA, who was out of work having left Colchester, to start then and he would have formulated his squad during the latter part of last season thus leaving him ready to attack this division this. Could it be that it was a question of the finance needed, not being in place ready for this season?

As Harty said I have never known such negativity within the supporters of this club during my time of watching them. The dislike of Adams is bordering on hate from some on here. Yes he has made mistakes and hopefully he will rectify those mistakes in the very near future with his new signings. My major concern is that he/ the back up team seem to be getting the team formation wrong and once that is sorted out I believe that we have the players to climb the division but it needs sorting out very soon before it is too late.

How do you really expect people to react when a manager who took us to 7th is removed then a previous manager bought in and now we are in the relegation zone ?

Also we see another assistant manager back who was sacked, in effect we are going backwards hence the negativity.

 

[BensGrandad]

The whole point is that if as has been suggested DK wanted to sack DW in January he could have done so as we were then struggling and due to winning a few games and others having a bad run we managed to get to 7th, although still way outside of the play offs, we wouldnt be having this thrown up every 5 minutes that we finished 7th. That final position was more by luck than our good playing. DK has created this problem with his timely sacking of DW bearing in mind he said at the fans forum he would have been sacked even if we had got promoted. So the board had made their mind up that he had to go so once again why did they not do it in January when it was originally suggested.

 

[Buzzer]

If that had been the case, I'm sure that DK would have used other opportunities that came along last season. He didn't. Besides which, I kept a public silence about what DK had said in January - only saying anything after Harty misrepresented on SCR what I had told him privately.


Non coupable.

And you telling notoriously indiscreet people in private is why it's called a whispering campaign and not a shout it from the rooftops campaign.

Job done agent Bracknell. Your place at the top table as DK's pet fan is assured for another year.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

And you telling notoriously indiscreet people in private is why it's called a whispering campaign and not a shout it from the rooftops campaign.

Job done agent Bracknell. Your place at the top table as DK's pet fan is assured for another year.

As I'm sure Ian Hart could confirm, he and I have had very many conversations in private that don't find their way into the public arena. Discretion is normally our watchword.

 

[Buzzer]

As I'm sure Ian Hart could confirm, he and I have had very many conversations in private that don't find their way into the public arena. Discretion is normally our watchword.

I'd say cryptic hints that somehow you two know "what is really going on but are unable to divulge further" would be a better watchword.

What was it Harty said on a phone-in a few weeks ago - "Can't say any more but to those of you who want Adams out, be careful what you wish for" ...or how about this gem "Yes, the Albion are playing badly but by blaming Adams are we pointing the finger at the right culprit or are there machinations behind the scenes?" I paraphrase but you get my gist.

You and he have been instrumental in trying to absolve Micky of any blame and smearing Wilkins achievements. If that's what you two have to do to stay close to the club then so be it but it doesn't really fit with the "no-one told me nothing, no sirree and if they did I weren't listening" defence.

 

[Hoops Seagull]

The whole point is that if as has been suggested DK wanted to sack DW in January he could have done so as we were then struggling and due to winning a few games and others having a bad run we managed to get to 7th, although still way outside of the play offs, we wouldnt be having this thrown up every 5 minutes that we finished 7th. That final position was more by luck than our good playing. DK has created this problem with his timely sacking of DW bearing in mind he said at the fans forum he would have been sacked even if we had got promoted. So the board had made their mind up that he had to go so once again why did they not do it in January when it was originally suggested.

Surely some people are missing the point - DK may have been planning to sack Wilkins in January and have Adams lined up to replace him but for whatever reason it did not happen.

Wilkins, Chapman and the players with the help of the supporters turned it round and we ended up 7th; Even then when DK was asked, if we had been promoted would he still have sacked Wilkins he said even this was not enough to change the decision to sack Wilkins . After DK sacked Wilkins he offered him a role which put him in an untenable position which any self respecting person could not accept.

So in comes Adams saying he would like Wilkins and Chapman to stay and work with him. Adams must be blind, unfeeling or just plain daft if he can not see or understand why they couldn't and didn't accept the offers made.

From that point in May the players became Adams players and it was for him to assess them and decide where he needed to implement the changes he thought were necessary to achieve what he had agreed with DK to lead us onwards and upwards as he was the way forward.

The players he bought in have not delivered, we have had loan players etc and nothing has made any difference - we have only achieved three home wins so far this season - is this progress?

In December/January and now February with the positin getting worse and with us now in the relagation zone with Adams seemingly devoid of a way forward and remarks having changed from things like we are to good to go down, to what seems to be an acceptance that we will be going down and he will re build - the remarks are undending and keep getting more and more confusing.

How much more do we have to take or is it all part of the plan by DK? Is it his plan if we go down to blame this as a factor to announce pulling the plug (or putting on hold) Falmer?

I am finding it hard to keep the faith and believe we have a future.